Can you trust the Ofsted reports?

[MunchMummy]

I'm looking at moving house into the countryside about 30 miles away. I do not know anything about the local primary schools there so have to look at the Ofsted reports on the internet to get a guide as to what they are like.

My question is does anyone know if the reports are accurate to the school or not really. My favourite village's school has an overall rating of 3 (slightly under average achieving). Does this really matter.

I don't want my DDs to go the 'best of the best sir' kind of school, but on the other hand I don't want to give them a bad start either.

Any advice on Ofsted reports would be much appreciated.

When the DCs school was given notice of an inspection the whole team worked through the weekend publishing documents and policies - I and a number of other parents were asked to sign / back date three terms worth of IEPs that we had been asking for for a long while.

Some parents and children are actively selected to speak positively to the Inspectors. That said, we do get a questionnaire home to complete for the inspectors - although as it gets returned via book bags to the secretary I'm not sure whether they always reach the inspectors without being vetted.

I can understand why a school team work so hard to get a good ofsted report because they like SATs are what the outside world judges them upon.

I think that you need to see the individual school and judge for yourself. Hope the move goes well for you.

No, total shite IMO, although I wonder how parents know how varied and challenging the lessons are every week

DD's nursery on the day of their Ofsted inspection bore no relation to any usual day.

New equipment (a new climbing frame/multi cultural dolls/puzzles etc), staff were bought in on their days off.

As soon as the inspector left it was like a French farce with the other nursery managers arriving to claim their stuff back.

right, are you ready for this;

my friend is a teaching assistant in yr2 at a private very well regarded school; they had 9 MONTHS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! to prepare for fuckofsted; whereas as has been correctly quoted here my DH is a state head and gets 48 hours notice; my friend said that the "Priming" of the kids is ridiculous, whereas teachers in thestate sector have to think on their feet and what they see is what they get. How can 2 or 3 retired teachers or whatever they are POSSIBLY know a school after 2 or 3 days? I personally think its a load of crap.

lovecheese

Because
a) we have lots of parent/teacher communication
b) I work in a school so am able to make comparisons (am a TA)
c) I volunteer 1 day a week so witness it myself
and most importantly
d) my daughter comes home every day full of enthusiasm about what she has learnt

Tbh I would be concerned about a nursery that has to bring in equipment and extra workers. Does that mean they are usually insufficiently staffed?

X posts
In answer to you wondering how I know what goes on in the school

But Crack.. you don't need an report to tell you that then if you know already !

(dd's nursery was sessional care so she went for 2 hrs a couple of times a week.. tbh she just liked the playdoh)

The reports from both my dd's primary schools just confirmed what I already suspected.
The op wanted opinions on the accuracy of ofsted, I was just saying that in my limited experience they have been spot on.

Fair do's

I moved my DD from a school which is good graded with outstanding features, she had been their for 5yrs. When I read their last Ofsted it bore no relation whatsoever to what we know the school to be like, we were gobsmacked at Ofsteds comments on the partnership with parents specifically the questionnaires that parents provided. In 5yrs my DD never brought home a questionnaire, we were never asked our opinion nor were the parents of any other child that attends the school that we know. It was like reading a report on a totally different school.

Their SAT results are in the top few for our area, however the teachers are undermined by HT, so many of the original staff have left as they don't agree with the ethos. It got to the stage where DD would constantly cry (she is not a softie either) had constant minor ailments, headaches, leg ache, tummy ache feeling sick etc, I had to physically prise her off me in the playground to get her into school. We decided to take her out she now goes to another local school with the naffest Ofsted I have read in a long time, lowest sat results in the area and a very high level of transient families.

However DD gets up at 6.30, gets herself ready for school gets her own breakfast, hasn't been ill and more importantly comes home every day excited about what has happened, the teaching staff spend time getting to know her even teachers that she doesnt have ask if she is ok, the HT is in the playground every am and pm (often picking up dog poop) to great the children and parents - most of whom he knows by first names - this is a school which my DD is proud to be part of and has respect for the teaching staff.

So I would agree Ofsted reports can give an overview, they don't tell a day to day story, I would visit get a feel for the place and look at how the children and teachers relate to each other for me pastoral care and personal attention and true enthusiasm in teaching staff is way more important than teaching to test results.

I think they can be a good starting point to look at doing further research, but I wouldn't use them in isolation.

I'm a teacher and I've been through the OFSTED process four times now, and by and large I think they were generally about right on most things. Yes, all the schools I worked in tried to pull the wool over the inspectors' eyes. Sometimes they got away with it, but mostly not.

I'm in exactly the same position - moving house to a new area, and having to choose a new school. I've been using OFSTED reports almost in reverse, of course all schools set up a showpiece of what they do for the inspectors, but if the best they can pretend to be is graded not to be great (and a 3, whilst technically satisfactory, is not what the govt wants) then I would be a bit worried and do a bit more digging. I wouldn't rely on it totally, but I would use it to help me ask more questions, focus my research and so on...

I sincerely hope you can't trust them as I have chosen a 'satisfactory' school over an 'outstanding' school with similar results.

I read the Ofsted for the chosen school and saw an anti-middle class theme run right through it. If the same inspectors did all the schools in the same area, they might be worth something; otherise, forget it IMO.

It's laughable. One of my local schools had an Ofsted last term with ONE inspector for ONE day for a 5 form entry junior school - 600 children and ??? staff. They were given outstanding in every area. How? How can that 1 person possibly make realistic judgements on what he sees in 1 day in a huge school? It's a farce.

Ofsted reports can make quite good scrap paper but that's about it... I've been through a few as a teacher too and am always disappointed by the inconsistency (and that's within the same system, never mind all the modifications). I've taught in a school that Ofsted put on a notice to improve in spite of the fact that our KS2 results were phenomenal considering the projected levels for our pupils (high SEN, non-Eglish speaking, mobile intake) but because we didn't meet the LA floor targets we couldn't be considered satisfactory. Absolutely gutting. I now teach at a different school which Ofsted believe to be 'good' and yes, it is good but I don't think the teaching is as personalised, imaginative or challenging as in my old school nor is the SEN provision, the EAL input or the behaviour management systems because they can get away with it. Not all teachers take that attitude but Ofsted were far more accommodating to teachers in my new school than they were to those in my old because the KS2 results were perfectly acceptable.

When we chose a school for our DC my DH (also a teacher) and I didn't even consider looking at the Ofsted reports or KS2 results. I would prefer to judge a school by my own snapshot of it, not one driven by data and targets.

SE13Mummy - I'm interested in your comments. My daughters' school has a very high proportion of SEN and increasing percentage of ESL families. Also a contingent of travellers and high level of mobility generally. There are a lot of families who struggle (or in a few cases frankly can't be bothered) with supporting their childrens' education.

I've heard it said that in these circumstances it is next to impossible for the school to get more than "satisfactory", because some of the targets that you have to hit are just out of reach, no matter how well you support the children's learning. Is there any substance to this, or is it just a case of those of us at "satisfactory" schools clutching at straws ?

At the same time, my own kids (and others from supportive, stable families) are doing absolutely fine. More than fine, in fact. I keep waiting for the moment when I think "she needs more challenge", but it hasn't arrived yet and she is in a happy, supportive and stimulating environment, with a great Head and a strong sense of purpose.

The same organisation got an "Outstanding" for its children's centre, but only "Satisfactory but Good in parts" for the school. Which seems odd.

Qoute OP: "I don't want my DDs to go the 'best of the best sir' kind of school..."
Why? Why won't you want your child get the 'best of the best' education?

SE13mummy, Do you think there is a certain bias amongst OFSTED against very working class type schools? All the schools I have worked in have been middle class schools, good exam results, good kids, good places to work / study and all have got good or better in the OFSTED inspection. I do often wonder whether there is a bias built into the system?

Or should I say, how much of a bias, because actually I'm pretty convinced there is!!

One local secondary school achieved an Ofsted 'satisfactory' last month. At about the same time league tables showed just 25% pupils there achieved 5 A*-C GCSEs (inc maths & english). It's not in a very deprived area or anything, free school meal take up is below national average etc. Some local primary teachers report childrens parents bringing their children's current work back to show them two or three years after they have left and it is worse than when they were in year 6. I really can't see how such a school can be judged as 'satisfactory', so I don't think ofsted always get it right.

I'm gobsmacked by some of the anti-Ofsted views here.

Yes, schools have notice of an Ofsted in as much as they know it is coming within a 365 day period, minus holidays. Beyond that, they get 48 hours. A school cannot get its procedures into place, the safeguarding systems sorted and create the data Ofsted want to see within 48 hours. It's either there or it's not.

But it's not a snapshot and it's not a fix. The Ofsted inspectors make their assessments based on the facts - not just how that year's SATs went, but how much that cohort of children have improved since they entered the school. These kids are tracked to within an inch of their lives - the data to show improvement, whether they started below average and ended only slightly below average, or whether they started well and didn't improve, is all there.

This is the Section 5 Evaluation Schedule, which shows more about what it is Ofsted look for.

Re the OP - yes, Ofsted is relevant. I do agree that a visit to the school and a sense of whether you like the atmosphere and whether the kids seem happy is more relevant.

Rollmops said: Qoute OP: "I don't want my DDs to go the 'best of the best sir' kind of school..."
Why? Why won't you want your child get the 'best of the best' education?

I am not the OP, but I feel the same about schools. In my case, it is because I want my children to enjoy their childhood and build self-confidence and the ability to enjoy life to the full, because I think that will set a good foundation for their mental health when they are old enough to get sucked into the relentless world of work.

I don't think that the schools that Ofsted rates as Outstanding are always very good at getting that balance right. There are a lot of exam factories around here.

For me, I would view it as a valid source of information about a school. I wouldn't use it as the sole one though. Same thing with SATs results - just a different source.

I was shocked to think that some people thought that OFSTED were only concerned with SATS - I once worked at a school that had an outstanding from Ofsted, but had very low scores.

One of the few schools in our area that has an Outstanding for Ofsted is the school-on-a-rough-council-estate that no-one wants and everyone complains about if they are given that school if they are allocated it and they didn't want it. I think that Ofsted has done a lot to challenge myths about only good schools being in nice areas.

I do sometimes think that Ofsted inspectors do get things wrong, or have bees in their bonnets about certain things - I remember the year when every single display had to be placed with a piece of writing showing a context, now no-one cares. Now school councils are the 'in' things as are 'having your own pair of wellington boots within accessible reach'! Also there was a school very local to me that had a wonderful ofsted report and having worked in that school, I did wonder 'why?' and 'how?'.

The school I did choose for my child had an outstanding for its pastoral care and I thought that reflected the ethos of the school very well. It doesn't have top of the table results and it never will but it does have a very caring environment and a dedicated team of teachers and a headteacher that will fight and strive to make sure her children are given the best opportunites that she is able to give and that her children can develop their potential.

Ofsted is relevant, as are SATS results but the atmosphere of the school is perhaps the most important factor.

I pretty much lost faith in Ofsted after my dcs spent a term at a horrible nursery when dh was on sabbatical and then the horrible nursery went on to get a great Ofsted report, whereas the lovely one they usually go to did badly. When we looked into it, it turned out the nice nursery was being marked down on things like 'staff in the baby unit' (ie for the under 2s)'aren't always aware of what the learning outcomes are for the activities.' FFS! Whereas the inspectors at the other one had totally failed to pick up on the fact that babies were constantly left to cry, for example.

My dd is currently at a very popular village primary school that was given a notice to improve in its latest Ofsted report. They had done badly in one set of SATS (and as it is a tiny school, the level of random fluctuation is going to be bigger than at a large school - because a small number of atypical results will throw the average out more) and new OFSTED rules meant it couldn't score higher overall than the grade achieved in those SATS.
They will get another inspection in a year, the SATS will be better, they will be categorised as a 'good and improving' school, and the head will be praised for turning things around in a short time.