*Huge* classes with multiple teachers for 4 year olds?

[GillW]

Our local primary school have just announced that from this year's foundation intake they are no longer going to have multiple classes per year group, but will instead have one large class for the year, which will have multiple teachers.

I have to confess that I've never heard of this being done at this age (I think a class of 60 would be very daunting to a 4 year old) - I can only guess that it's either a budget cuts issue so that they can have two teachers, but only one classroom assistant, or a response to their SATs results which have consistently fallen over the last few years. I suppose in theory there could be advantages to this arrangement in that it would allow them to split the group differently for different subjects/activities so they could tailor the teaching to two different levels.

Several people I know who have children starting at the school this year, and who weren't aware of this until after they'd applied and accepted places aren't at all happy about it - does anyone here have any experience of how this type of setup works for primary school children?

No experience of it, but I heard/read a few months ago in news from the NUT conference that the government was intending to bring this in. From what I could gather I don't think it went down well with the teaching unions. Personally I think its a move in the wrong direction.

Gill, our school did something like this a few years ago in the middle of a (Tory!) financial crisis, only they had one reception class - but in 2 linked rooms - and only ONE f/t teacher. I think there was also a bit of a teacher, 2 nursery nurses both half-time, and 2 NTAs, both f/t I think. This went on for several years - until the requirement for infant classes to be under 30, I think (and where does this arrangement fit in that requirement, I wonder?) - my DS2 was in this superclass, his year are Y5 now and are doing fine. (V experienced teacher mind you.)

However there were only ("only"!!!) about 44 children, not 60 - and, as I said, there were 2 actual classrooms so the same amount of space as before. Just fewer teaching-staff hours. It worked OK because of the number of non-teaching-staff hours (and a lot of reception is about non-teaching supervision while the teacher works with small groups). 60 children with 2 teachers and one assistant does not sound good to me - can you find out how many staff will be available to the class overall?

Our school's reception unit is an open-plan area. There are two classes, and two teachers, and they definitely have two separate identities ... do PE separately, line-up to go to lunch/playtime/assembly etc. separately. Morning teaching is largely separate. However, they do do lots of things together too - afternoons are less structured, more play, and children from both classes can play together in the sandpit, for example. There are two full-time assistants in the unit, plus lots of other extras - literacy support workers, one-to-one workers, parent volunteer helpers, people running library or listening to readers, etc. It does work well here - they have a very gentle induction process, but the children cope well with the big group. But they do still have one key adult to relate to.

Do you know what is going to happen in practice? If lots of parents are concerned, the school/governors should be holding a meeting to inform parents and allay any concerns.

It may not be as radical as you think ... at the end of our reception year the children are re-arranged into classes - in order to make the classes evenly-matched/balanced. Some children find this rather unsettling ... a one-class system would at least avoid this. Also one of our reception teachers has been off sick a lot - the cover has been consistent and superb - but if the whole class were jointly 'owned' by both teachers, then I think all the children would feel less insecurity in cases of staff absences.

Let us know what you find out.

I wouldnt be very happy about this. I dont know how you could control that amount of children in one space.

And another thing! Is the official requirement for class sizes to be under 30, or is it that the qualified teaching staff must be at a 1:30 ratio?

I am horrified by this! State education is in such a mess - I am so glad my children won't be put into the midst of such chaos.

How bizarre that the retiring teacher did that! maybe they were using her to check out the children.

anais lucky for you Im pressuming you can afford private schooling. My dd has SEN so they have to provide as much as in her statement, but ds he'll be in the thick of things by the look of it. My friend is a reception class teacher and she was telling me about the single intake rule, only accepting kids in sept. and not after xmas, she said this is all to do with funding& budget. But she said alot of the kids put in school too early have SEN, so theoretically cost more council money, surely??

I think anais home educates

Our school does similar - the reception area is an open-plan area. There are three classes, and three teachers, each child is assigned to a teacher for registration purposes but they do lots of things together like do PE, dance studio time, art room time etc.
As the school year progressed the children were separated into three groups for various things like maths & reading based on ability but still have lots of sessions in their registration class. Each class has an assistant too. I have to admit that it sounds like a logistical nightmare but I found that the kids settled in well and the routine was soon learnt by all. This idea continues right through the school (up to age 11) with ks1 (4-7) in three classes and ks2 (7-11) in two classes - the children are split into ability based groups for numeracy and literacy and whole year are together for PE, dance, music, art etc.
I agree with kmg1, it is worth finding out how they plan to make this work and the reasons for doing it.

Hi GillW. I am a primary school teacher and your school is undergoing similar changes as ours by the sounds of it. Basically it will all be down to the govmnt funding, I would imagine. Like you say, they are probably making the use of one classroom assistant across two classes. There is no way that they can have more than 30 children to one teacher, so I dont know why they are structuring their classes like this when they could just as well have two separate, 1:30 ratio. I really wouldn't worry though. The children will still be taught by their own teacher and the same standards will surely still apply with literacy and numeracy, with the teacher taking her/his groups as usual. I would imagine that the class will only ever mingle during play sessions, which often take place in the afternoons. These are so important however, and I think it is q good for children to mix a little more at these times. I would be concerned however, if they are doing this to save money on assistants or if the teachers' hours are cut in anyway, as cam is right. The gov is trying to bring in classes of 60. ie: have a classroom assistant cover a class of 30 and a teacher cover another class of 30, BUT have to plan/assess/oversee the class assistant's class at the same time! impossible. It doesn't at all mean that there are literally classes of 30. It's basically teaching on the cheap....is it teaching at all? not if children are being taught by unqualified teachers! You should ask your school exactly how they are going to set the whole thing up.

'doesn't literally mean there are classes of 60' I meant to say!

Found out a bit more last night - they're saying that it IS going to be one large class, but that they'll mixed up in various ways to be taught in groups for different things. However that will definately NOT be done on the basis of ability/standard.

I'm quite glad in a way that it's another 3 years before DS would be due to start school, so we do at least have time to see how this works, and to consider other options if necessary, unlike the parents who have had this thrust upon them after accepting places. Unfortunately ALL the schools around here are oversubscribed (lots of new housing built, but no new schools) so applying to a different school without living close to it may not be an option either.