Education and social mobility - John Humphrys is coming on for a discussion, Fri 29 Jan, at 11.30am

[GeraldineMumsnet]

John Humphrys is filming a documentary about education for BBC2. He is embarking on a journey around Britain to meet parents, teachers and students.

His task is to examine the relationship between education and social mobility - why is it that education cannot close the attainment gap that exists between children from the poorest and wealthiest backgrounds?

Government education advisor David Woods has accused parents of being prejudiced against their local state secondary schools. Dr Anthony Seldon, Master of Wellington College, calls the current independent sector an apartheid system. Professor Stephen Ball, from the Institute of Education, concludes that grammar schools, parental choice and faith schools have all been responses to middle-class concerns.

John is coming to Mumsnet this Friday (29 Jan) at 11.30am to hear your experiences. Are you benefiting from parental choice in education? Is it at the expense of others? Does the current system put too much responsibility on parents to make the right choices? Is it too stressful? Do you feel you have to top-up your children's education eg home-tutoring, learning an instrument, employing a lawyer? Are they worthwhile investments, or necessities that cause resentment?

Please post your thoughts here. Thanks in advance.

Absolutely - no choice in the town where I live - two first schools, and one of those is catholic (so out of the question for us). The catholic one is outstanding, top in county (as can be very selective), and the other is in bottom quarter of county. So no choice at all for parents without transport to go to the village first schools around us

OtterInaSkoda in what sense do you think parental choice is an illusion. On the face of it it's very hard to argue against it. What could we offer instead?

yes - it's an illusion and anxiety producing. Maybe we should be telling parents to concentrate on encouraging their xhildren to learn (and take some initiative) rather than becoming experts on catchment areas and league tables?

Just wanted to come on and say hello to Mr Humphreys and to THANK YOU for coming on to MN.

I don't really have anything helpful to say (other than I'm a HUGE fan.) as I'm only at the very beginning of all of this - thinking about first nursery place for my PFB so will read with interest.

I think it is so unfair how good schools impact on house prices. We've had to move away from a city and are now stuck renting in a village with no chance to afford our own place just so we can feel we are doing the best for our kids' schooling.

I do believe parenting is crucial to a childs' development, but it can't compensate fully for a bad school.

On the subject of careers advice, the labour government has done all it can to deskill careers advisers over the last 10 years. The Connexions Service was a sham. It is no wonder the aspirations of children from poorer backgrounds are not raised as there is no attention given to this crucial area in schools.

So given that we think parental choice is an illusion, are you so unhappy with what's on offer that you'd manipulate the system by, for instance, buying a house in the right catchment area?

I would love schools to choose kids based on attitude, not achievement. One school for the kids who are interested in schoolwork and want to apply themselves, and another school for those who don't want to be there (IYSWIM!)

And/or pretending to be religious/ church going to get into the best school?

hi John, as a foster carer (as well as parent of my own 4) me and my husband see how difficult it is for the very poorest children, those in foster care, to get places at decent schools. They are moved around so often, and as they tend to have many social and learning difficulties, schools are desperate to kick them out into special schools, where they get even more isolated from mainstream society. There are meant to be rules about "looked after" children getting first priority for places, but until there is substantial funding available to a school for taking these children, schools don't want them.

That's shocking Sensua.

Can't believe I just said "me and my husband" to John Humphrys

"My husband and I...."

I do think parents who lie to get their children into schools should be penalised. I can't see how you can justify doing that while claiming you chose a particular school for its moral values

I have done both - DCs attend a church school and we stayed in an overcrowded flat until DS1 had been offered a place at Fortismere and then moved. It was worth every moment of discomfort and stress.

At least you didn't put a rogue apostrophe in his name

Hi

What are your thoughts on the comments made by people who don't opt into the system at all? Will you be investigating elective home education as a valid and equal choice alongside state and private school systems?

I live on the edge of a park and if you turn left out of my house, you cross the park you're yards away from a good state primary school. But the authorities said you couldn't turn left you had to turn right because the park isn't a public highway and so my son couldn't go to that school. The school that was theoretically close enough was nothing like as good. I imagine there are plenty of people who've had this sort of experience?

but Lymond is right that the system is really failing the vulnerable children: those in case, those from challenging backgrounds, those with special needs... IME the middle class kids with the pushy parents will do OK anyway. But the political parties court their anxieties (for obvious reasons I suppose).

in care

In all honesty we've been fortunate in that we were able to choose a school with an ethos that appealed to us, and we had the means to get there each day (although we now live within a minute's walk). I don't think this is the case for most families.

anastasia my response would be that if you're capable of educating your children at home and they thrive and are happy - why on earth shouldn't you? Personally I'd be terrified at the prospect.

Um, why shocking upandrunning?
One school for those interested in academia and another school for those not. BUT BUT BUT not a scrap-heap school: find out what does interest them and major on that (in lazy, stereotyping shorthand: the vocational stuff)
My boss is one of the most intelligent people I know but hated school. Could not stand to be stuck behind a desk doing books. He runs his own engineering company and loves the getting-his-hands-dirty stuff. Academic school was not the right place for him, despite his inteligence.

The alternative to parental choice is schools genuinely offering good enough schooling to whosoever walks through the door. The best schools do this already. My children's ex-primary (where Gordon Brown's kids now go) is one such school. Pre GB's kids attending at least, it was seen as one of the least desirable primaries in the area, yet all the children there learned the three rs and seemed to thrive. (Wonder if the local perception of it has changed since the attendance of the mini Browns and, if so, whether for better or worse?!)

As a primary school governor for many years, I am aware of the millions that have been spent on education, and the initiatives undertaken during the last 11 years. Progress has been made and schools track pupil progress in great detail. In my experience some children start with a low level of skills, particularly communication skills, in the nursery. Would achievement be more equal if money was spent helping families with pre-school children so that children began school on an equal footing?

Well said Effie, i have to go to work in a minute but would like to thank John for giving his time.

Mr Humphreys,welcome.

We arein the opposite boat : the school immediately across our road is an over subscribed faith school yet, we felt, based on experience with older children, completely unsuited to our child who has a high risk of SN. We would choose a place in the under subscribed school and to let another child take that place who can benefit from it, but we would have to apply for special permission to do that.

Seems bizarre, tbh.