Is this a common rule in schools?

[Takver]

Not dd's school, but one of the secondaries that it feeds to - has a rule that boys' hair can't be longer than collar length. I was a bit stunned by it - is this normal in 2010???
The same school also gives detentions to children who speak their home language in the corridors, which again seems a bit OTT. (Its a UK state school, btw.) Is it just me, or have schools got massively stricter since my day?

To explain, Sihks are obliged to keep the five Ks, one of which is Kesh - uncut hair.

My son has long hair and always takes a 'bobble' to school. He is year 7, its tidy enough but long. He has an Alice band also because of practical work.
The schools policy on hair is the same for boys as well as girls. No unnatural colours nothing shorter than a number 2 cut, long hair to be tidy, no logos or patterns shaved or cut into hair, no 'extreme' hairstyles.

The language thing, it is quite relevant here as a lot of families in out area do not have English as a home language, I know that they are encouraged to speak only English at school, but no punishments are involved only to be made to repeat what is said in English.

On the hair thing, it perhaps is a little easier with Sikhism specifically, because any discrimination on the grounds of religious belief is specifically covered by legislation - freedom of expression v. school authority is harder to pinpoint in law.

It would be much easier to challenge the issue of language than that of appearance. And rightly so, of course!

But Sikh boys would be wearing turbans by secondary school age, so the hair past collar thing would be irrelevant. I've never heard of a school which didn't permit the wearing of the turban.

Thanks for the pointers, shallishanti. I've heard of the Convention, obviously, but never come across this issue of article 30 before.

It is incredible and against children rights and minority rights (besides art 30 of the Convention of the Rights of the Child, art. 27 of the Convention on civil and political rights also ratified by the UK).

would love to know the name of the school to do something about it myself.

Of course we also have these rights recognise at European level mainly by the Council of Europe. This is non-sense and should be denounced.

Sorry, went to bed. No time to catch up properly now (at work!).

Some confusion on the home language thing - its a Welsh medium school, so detention for speaking English in the corridors. Has nasty overtones for me of children being beaten in the past for speaking Welsh, although I do understand why they do it.

at how many unfounded assumptions I made about the home language issue.

The law on promotion/protection of the Welsh language is quite complex, I believe.

I'd never heard of hair length restrictions - I think now it must be because I went to school in a town with lots of Sikh girls/boys - so of course it wouldn't be at all reasonable to restrict it (and lots of the boys didn't wear a turban in the younger years).

I was a bit horrified because I don't think that either DH or I would be allowed at that school (him - long hair, me - unnatural colour). Hopefully DD will go to the other local school, which I think is rather more chilled! We have a few years to go yet, anyway, lots of things can change.

A lot of schools have simular rules about hair length. But I think it is very wrong to give detentions to pupils who speak thier home language in the coridor. Are you sure this is actually the case or did you just hear it from one of the students? A student might have been given detention for speaking thier home language so as to exclude other students.

Returning to takver's original question about whether schools have got stricter, I'm not sure. Mine had rules about the length of skirts above the knee when kneeling (probably introduced to avoid the moral perils of the mini skirt and a bit superfluous in the era of the 70s midi skirt) and about long hair having to be tied back. But other schools may have been more easy-going and I don't know what rules the boys' school had.

What's also changed, I think, is that schools now have policies on everything. I'm sure our head teacher just used to deal with issues as they arose - and, another difference, pupils and parents pretty much accepted their word as law - whereas now pupils and parents want to see some sort of explanation/justification of rules, policies and decisions. On the whole, I think that's healthy.

That's an interesting point about schools having to have policies on everything.

With the speaking English - I am reasonably certain that in at least one case a student was given detention(s), although TBH I had assumed that there was perhaps some other things going on.

It was only when I later heard that the school also enforced collar length hair (and also gave detentions for forgotten books/homework) that it made me wonder whether this was 'normal' strictness these days.

Perhaps my secondary school was just relatively lax - certainly I don't remember detentions being handed out for anything other than pretty serious misbehaviour. For 'petty' rule breaking it would have been a telling off, or perhaps extra homework if you persisted.

Hey, synchronicity Article here (sorry, guardian reader) about exactly the same thing . . .

Synchronicity indeed!

(Another Guardian reader)

Takver it sounds a similar set re language to my DC's schools. They are all in Welsh medium education and are encouraged to try and speak Welsh as much as possible for a number of reasons. Firstly many of them come from homes where little or no Welsh is spoken so they can take every opportunity to practice a language they are learning. Secondly the whole ethos and feel of these schools is by very nature Welsh and they are trying to make being and speaking Welsh a normal part of everyday life- not just for the classroom but for everyday life. I knew this when I chose to send them to Welsh medium schools and so don't really see it as an infringement of their human rights when they are encouraged to speak Welsh (most schools take a carrot rather than sick approach I have found.) Can't comment on the hair though as my son looks like the hair bear bunch these days

Well, tbh hobnobs, I didn't think that the speaking welsh rule was unreasonable (though I know some parents consider that the school is overly strict about that & other matters, which was kind of why I included it in my OP).

I was interested that so many people on here considered that to be much more draconian than enforcing a particular hairstyle.

To my mind, having a rule about what language you can speak in school is fair play - there is a clear and understandable reason for it, AND it doesn't affect what children can do out of school.

In contrast, the school is effectively saying that pupils can never, over a period of 5 years, have a hairstyle other than that approved by the school. I certainly wouldn't take a job where my employer said I couldn't have a particular hairstyle. Admittedly I might myself make the decision that I was going to be more successful in my employment if I adopted a conservative style (or indeed a super-fashionable one for other jobs). But I certainly can't see many employers making their male employees restrict their hair to collar length.

It is a rule in my primary school.

PT x

www.primaryteacherdiary.blogspot.com

My boys are not allowed to have their hair touching their collars.

In fact, DS arrived home yesterday with cut hair. He went to the barbers on the way home, and we didn't tell him to. I suspect that someone did.

My girls have to have their hair tied back at all times.

'Imagine if you went to live in a country where English was not commonly spoken, and your dcs were punished for speaking english to other english kids at playtime.'

Come to Belgium where certain communes enforce this rule and it applies to parents at drop off and pick up as well. You will speak nothing but Flemish.

I would imagine that it is very common abroad, I have anecdotally heard that it is.

The language rule is [schock]ing!

I was "told off" by a playgroup lady for speaking French to DD1 at home. Needless to say that she (dd1) never went back to that group and never had any problems speaking English!

Actually, I'd be quite grateful if the school enforced a Welsh only for parents rule (in school grounds, not everywhere!), it'd be much easier to improve without feeling like a pillock speaking rotten Welsh to people who can speak English as well as I can.