When to start music tuition

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Hello all, I've got a 16 month old daughter who like most children her age loves music/dancing etc. My DH and I are both music lovers but neither of us play an instrument. I really wanted to learn to play the piano, flute and violin when I was young but my parents couldn't afford to let me learn either instrument. I have therefore no idea of what age my daughter might be able to start learning them. What ages are feasible for each instrument?

Promise to all of you who might cringe of the pushy implications of my question, I will let her decide if she wants to carry on playing - and also what instrument she might want to play!

Thanks for any advise.

I would imagine about 5 at the youngest.

I think the music service of your LEA should be able to offer a subsidised tuition service. I'm not sure though to be honest.

The best age to start is when the child wants to. But starting early is no guarantee of fast progress - often starting later means they get on faster.

I also think it varies from instrument to instrument.

Violin - 5/6 seems a good age
Cello - as violin
piano - 6/7 (hands need to be a bit bigger)
Recorder - 4/5 is ok, but 5/6 might be better
Flute - 7/8
Clarinet - not before adult front teeth come through
Brass instruments - 8/9

Ds started music classes at 6 months (baby ones obviously) and progressed on to classes at the local music school when he was 2.5 and then learning the piano at school when he was 4.2. They had to do a test first before they could start piano lessons to see if they were ready (I assume that was able to concentrate sufficiently). Don't know about hand size as ds has always had big hands and big feet!

Dd did some plinkyplonking with music at nursery - a guy came in a couple of times a week and they all had a little electronic keyboard.

After nursery finished he formed a little group of children who wanted to carry on, and dd now 6 goes twice weekly, still with the little keyboard, she can read music (which amazes me, tone deaf etc) and enjoys it. The teacher said about 7/8 for piano-type instrument rather than the little keyboard.

I think for adults who play an instrument themselves it's always easier for a child to start an instrument younger, as the parent and child can 'play' together without it having to be in a formal learnign set up.

Most musical instrument lessons are more formal i.e. teacher/pupil, 30 mins, 1to1 etc etc.

Both my DSs play instruments, but they didn't really start until they were 6/7.
Many instruments require a lot of concentration and or fine motor control.

If I were you, I would do the following:

2-3 years : Children's music groups Jo Jingles/ kindermusic types
Lots of singing/ nursery rhymes at home etc
Percussion instruments at home to play along with - get a sense of rhythm - marakkas (sp?), xylophone, tamborine etc

4-6 : recorder - a most under-rated instrument in my opinion (can't you tell I'm a former/current recorder player )
By learning the recorder she will learn:

• to read music
• to play in a music group
• the fingering similar to other woodwind instruments (flute/saxophone) for the future

THEN if, at 7, she is keen, then I'd consider a 'proper' instrument
Piano - hard but useful, however not a 'group' instrument
Flute - LOADs of them, but popular, portable and versatile
Clarinet - a bit tricky to start with beacuse of the reed (need adult teeth) but versatile as an orchestral and/or jazz instrument

OR you could go for the more unusual - harp? oboe?

It's about stretch and reach with piano, so hands have to be a certain size!

DD started piano at 6, got to grade 2 at 10 and gave up at 11 because she couldn't manage all the school homework and required piano practice - about 30 mins a day. I would love for her to go back to it, but no way!

The main thing with hands on the piano is that you have to be able to put your hands on the piano with one finger per white key (if that makes sense). Before their hands reach a certain size, they won't be able to comfortably do that and will develop bad habits.

Speaking as a music teacher - in addition to Whippet's suggestions, I would recommend something along the lines of a general musicianship class at age 4,5, or 6 which will develop rhythm, pitch recognition and basic musical skills before setting out on a specific instrument. Usually Kodaly based they will give your child the chance to develop a solid musical foundation using voice and tuned/untuned percussion before focusing on a particular instrument.

Too much 'formal' music education very early on is too much for most children, unless they are highly gifted. I can't comment on your child as obviously I don't know them, but I have a significant number of parents approach me saying DD/DS loves music, loves to dance, likes bashing on the piano, can we start lessons at 3, or 4. It's too soon for most and they will struggle, unless naturally gifted and driven.

I would recommend leaving instrumental lessons until 6 at the earliest.

They need to be able to focus for at least 15 mins imo, as that is a minimum for lesson times, and also need to be agreeable to doing a certain amount of practice each day - if only 5-10 mins. If they are the sort that will kick up a fuss, it may be better to leave it a while.

We did Kodaly classes from 2.5. Gave up when ds was 4.5 as his music knowledge had increased beyond the level of his class (because of the piano lessons). His piano lessons are 20 mins duration which I think is about the right length.

From as young as possible!

PT x

www.primaryteacherdiary.blogspot.com

There's a thread on Primary Ed where a whole class of 5 year olds (apart from one - OP's child) started piano lessons aged 3 or 4. I'm gobsmacked that people can be so blind to the muscle and brain coordination that is required to play the piano, not to mention a reasonably sized hand span! You have to laugh!

The interesting thing is that if you start one child off at 3 and another off at 7, in most cases they will be at a similar standard by age 10 or 11, but one parent will be annoyed by lack of progress!

Obviously you get the odd 'prodigy', but they're few and far between.

I didn't start till age 7, then did Grade 1 at 7, Grade 3 at 8, Grade 5 at 9, Grade 7 at 11 and Grade 8 at just turned 13. So starting a bit later didn't hurt me at all (and am pro now).

lol sfn.

Begs the question if we'd get the same progress if we started other things at 7 rather than 3...... like writing?

Thank you all so much for the feedback! I'll follow the advise given with focusing on nursery rimes and toddler fun with music for now and try Kodaly when she's 2 then move on to more formal music education based on her personality and wishes. I feel better for having a clearer idea of what's normal and achievable.

Just a comment to IAmTheEasterBunny - I am Norwegian and so didn't start school until 7, I am now doing a PhD so clearly starting late didn't hurt me

I learnt piano - starting when I was 6 - and both DS and DD were keen to play too. They learn the Suzuki method and their teacher, who is incredibly inspirational, says he likes to start children at around 4 years old as the method relies a lot on using the ear, rather than traditional scales and theory. DD was 5 when she started and hand size has made no difference, and DS was 6, again with no problems.

Having studied the traditional method myself I can see that they have a lot more fun learning than I ever did, and are far more inclined to go and play it on their own or fiddle about with it. DS is now learning the guitar and it's really helped him pick that up as he is able to "hear" music more easily. HTH.

I would try some Kodaly or Dalcrose.

DD went to Music for Little People classes from age 1 (with me) and had a huge amount of fun. Helped her confidence too!

www.musicforlittlepeople.co.uk

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Interesting thread. I am fascinated by the concept of finding the "right" time/age for starting children off on new skills, such that they make good progress right from the start.

Thanks to MN, I didn't bother taking DD to weekly swimming classes right through the year. She did a one-week's crash course (5x30 minutes in a group) last summer and 3x30 minute private lessons last November, in the same week, just before her 5th birthday. And hey presto, she learned to swim just like that!

My DDs school which has a very strong music department (school is 3 -18) has a policy that before year 2 (6 rising 7) they should learn their first instrument - their voice- at year 2 they may take up the Recorder, piano or volin. Other instruments start later depending on the child.
Part of their reasoning is that prior to year 2 they are learning to read one language (reading in general) and then in year 2 they are ready to learn read another language (music).

What WHippet said re the recorder:

"4-6 : recorder - a most under-rated instrument in my opinion (can't you tell I'm a former/current recorder player )
By learning the recorder she will learn:

• to read music
• to play in a music group
• the fingering similar to other woodwind instruments (flute/saxophone) for the future"

Verified from experience - particularly ponts 1 & 2 . Reading music & playing in a group - that's a lot of what music is about, so get them doing that early!

The book 'The right instrument for your child' is quite good to help choose an instrument that your dd might be best suited to (and so most likely to succeed on). It doesn't recommend starting too early either - thinks it puts more children off than it helps.

Was looking into this myself recently. Our LEA music service runs 2 kindergarten clubs for 3-4 and 4-5 year olds which are all about music apperication, rythum (sp?) etc. Then they offer the 5 pluses out of school group classes in strings, woodwind and voice. Think this is similiar to the Suzuki (sp?) violin method and might be easier on a young child. I gave up viola at 14 as hated the intense 1 to 1 classes.

I pretty much agreement with whippet.

For many instruments you need to be able to reach/stretch comfortably. Violin/cello are an exception because you can get teeny tiny ones but for instruments like flute even with a curved head joint you need to be able to stretch between keys. Reed instruments definitely need to wait until the adult teeth are firmly through and set firm. I personally refused to teach children younger than around 10 unless they had a note from their dentist. Beginners in particular tend to bite on the mouthpiece which will, over time, push the teeth out.

Ocarina is another very underrated instrument but doesn't have the fingering advantages of recorder. Recorder can be very complex - if you get bored you can move from a descant to a treble or sopranino which has different fingering to learn!

If you think she is musical at a very early age then start either with 'formal' voice lessons (but don't push it or she'll strain her voice) or violin/cello Suzuki method. For now focusing on general musical skills will stand her in very good stead. I found when I was doing my degree that those with a good background in general skills were more multipurpose/ready to give things a go than those who were excellent performers on one instrument that they started at the age of 3.