Does changing the name of a school change public perception of it?

[SE13Mummy]

As the title suggests, I'm interested in people's experiences of whether or not changing the name of a school affects the public perception of that school by the local community.

The background to this is that a local 'failing' primary school (A) has been in a partnership with an uber-successful primary (B) for just over two years. The governing bodies have voted to formalise the partnership with some kind of federation and are proposing to change the name of school A to take on the name of school B plus a random geographical reference. So the two schools would be B primary and B fields primary. The governors want to change the name because they are trying to shed the image of the school in its previous failing state as it's now doing quite well. Their argument is that the reputation outlives the current reality, an argument I agree with but personally don't think rebranding the school will fool anyone!

Elsewhere in our borough a number of schools have been rebranded and all but one (an RC academy that merged a primary and secondary which had completely different names from one another and was a new building on a new site) are still referred to as X, the old Y. These schools are all secondaries and the first name change was back in 2000/01 and yet it's still called 'X the old Y'.

So, have you come across any renamed schools in your area and, if so, has the new name altered public perception of that school? I'd love to find some proper research on this topic but in the absence of being able to track any down I thought you might be able to help Thank you!

Please help! It's my daughter's school they want to rename and I can't find anything anywhere that will help the group of us that don't want it done. Anecdotal bits and bobs would be much appreciated.

Yes, we had a failing primary school that changed its name (and more importantly its headteacher) and is now thriving and successful. Four or five years later, everyone has 'forgotten' its past.

The name alone won't do anything though. A lot of people still refer to the school by its old name (which is the name of the area it serves, I guess that has something to do with it).

I think changing the name alone won't help. But a change of leadership and a change in strategy/approach combined with a name change can definitely work. A school near us had a bad repuation and it has really changed its reputation. Everyone uses the school's new name (and did so after only about a year)

It's a bit of an own-goal, an admission of failure. Tell me a good school that ever changed its name.

Changing people's perception takes a long time and cannot be done overnight by a re-brand. An aggressive publicity campaign in the local press (look at our happy/successful/sporty/caring/etc kids) would achieve a lot more.

One of the schools where my parents live (which has a particularly bad reputation) actually went so far as to knock down the old school building, replace it with a new one and change the name.

We've yet to see whether it has changed at all. I don't know whether they've changed the way the school is run or anything like that, and to my mind, that is what will change the reputation.

There was a rumour that they were going to put an entrance exam in place (it's a secondary school) which seems unfair as it is one of the few schools in the area without an entrance exam, so I can see a lot of kids missing an education if this is true.

Admittedly it will change their reputation.

epithet: The name alone won't do anything though. A lot of people still refer to the school by its old name (which is the name of the area it serves, I guess that has something to do with it).

The current name of school A is also that of the geographical area it serves (it is the only primary school in that specific district since the other was closed a few years ago) which is one of the reasons we'd like the name kept - it seems a bit mean to essentially steal the school from the local community now that it's half decent!

Any more for any more?

Please...?

Our children's school had a new name when it moved into a brand new school building. Same staff and pupils just all moved down the road to new school with new name. That was a year ago. I think the new name has been a positve thing a real new start. School has same little problems a new name doesn't fix that. I don't think it had a huge reputation before, quite a small school and similar ofsted gradings to others schools this side of the town.

Lots of secondary schools in Bristol have quite recently changed their names and acquired academy status. To me, it doesn't change my perception of them, just confuses me as the names no longer describe where they are. Inevitably the old names are still being used as people then know which school you are talking about. Secondary schools in Bristol have historically been quite poor - but are now being heavily invested in and given facelifts. Whether this will actually improve anything, only time will tell.

Thanks Runoutofideas, the confusion with new names/old names is something I do wonder about for this school especially as it's the only primary in this particular district and has the same name as the district! I suppose I feel that as the school has already improved it feels a bit silly to rename the school at this stage.

SE13Mummy, I know the borough well, and no I don't think it would change people's perception, and why would they want to change the name of a school that is improving? What is the reason?

I know quite a lot of the namechanged schools around there, wolves in sheeps clothing I think.

Monks Park School (with a not great reputation) in Bristol has been renamed Orchard School.
Now people refer to it as 'Monks Park School, oh sorry Orchard school. Ho hoho.'

It is almost worse.

RainRain: way back in the 1980s I used to live close to Monks Park aka Monkeys Paradise! From memory I recall very little about it that could be described as orchard-like!

LittleMonty: school A has been in 'partnership' with school B (the name of which happens to begin with a B!) for the past two years, has had an enormous amount of money spent on it (seemingly to the detriment of other local primaries) and the current proposal is to formalise the partnership by forming a federation as has been done elsewhere in the borough with secondary schools. The governors want to rename the school so it takes on the name of school B and to do away with the old name completely because, I quote, "the public perception does not match the current reality of the school".

The two schools are incredibly different in intake and ethos and always will be as school B's intake all come from the Georgian mansions that surround it whereas school A's intake is much more mixed in terms of housing but has very few white pupils in spite of the area being mixed. I don't think that anyone in the local area will be fooled by a name change and personally feel that more of an active effort should be made to improve the school's standing in the local community instead of a) stealing the school from the community and b) assuming that a name change is what will change public perception.

SE - is school b in a conservation area? Can't quite get school a yet. I'm looking. Need a letter for school A.

LittleMonty, I believe so. Has a bizarre two syllable name. School A has two letters and a train station....

Just remembered, some people pronounce school B with three syllables. It depends if you pronounce an 'i' as an i as in igloo or as an e such as in cheese.

Yes I think I get it. One is really top isn't it? They're a wee bit down the road from me. I'm trying to think of something valid you could use for your argument, I'd be saying the name should reflect the fact that it is a community school, I suppose you know that already.

Start badgering your councillors. Get on SE13.com forum and post on it and see if you can get some support from there. I use SE23.com and they're always badgering councillors and stuff on there.

I don't like this name changing stuff with schools I really don't.

Sorry, should have been community, not struck through.

There's a secondary school not far from you that changed its name and was the first big rebranded school under new lab iirc. The name change wasn't enough and in the end it closed down, all the pupils went to other schools and it re-opened with a completely new intake. It's now very successful, but only afaik because the middle classes deemed it safe to send their children there when it re-opened. It's in a pretty wealthy area but is near lots of v good private schools.

LittleMonty, I'm awaiting notification of the official consultation which is due to start in January and then intend to post on the local forum (haven't used the SE13.com and on looking at it appears to be offering magicians and not a lot else!).

Tattycoram, I'm clearly bing a bit dense but I can't think of the secondary you've mentioned - is it within the SE13 borough or further afield?

I'm pretty sure the school you're talking about is my dc's old school. We moved abroad 3 years ago, so before the partnership with school B. At that time the perception of it as a failing school went really deep and many parents would do anything to make sure their dc didn't end up there. Very pleased to see that things are improving.

I agree with your arguments for keeping the old name. If the improvements to the school are permanent then I don't see any need to change the name at all. It would then always be sort of second best to school B instead of succeeding on its own merits.

Is it more than a branding issue though? From your original post, you say that the two schools are to be federated, which means that they will formally share a management team (there will probably only be one Head) and share one budget, whereas until now they've been working in partnership, with School B helping to improve School A, but they were probably completely separate entities. There may be some changes in staffing too - some rationalisation in the administrative team, for example, and you might see some teachers leave as the ethos of School A changes (if it hasn't already) to more fully reflect the way that School B works.

My personal opinion is that if a failing school has an ingrained poor reputation, it takes ages to change it, and although parents at School A will know that there have been enormous improvements, the parents of pre-school children who have yet to make a choice of primary school may still be influenced by its reputation rather than the new reality, and a change of name can be a catalyst to helping to get the message across. At the end of the day, the new federated school will need to be maximising intake to ensure they have a reasonable budget, and this is one way of helping to do that.

There is already an executive head (the existing head of school B) and an Associate head who runs school A on a day-to-day basis. The chair of governors is the same for both schools and there has already been some swapping of teachers from one school to the other.

From what I understand the two schools will maintain separate budgets which is one of the reasons I think it makes sense to continue to identify them as being two separate but associated schools rather than as two parts of the same school (which they will never be due to size, intake, catchment etc.). School B will always do very well as it is small and has a very privileged intake plus very few children who are eligible for free school meals, very little in the way of SEN or EAL children who are not considered bilingual.

The perception amongst pre-school parents is I suppose the thing that matters most and as I seem to spend a lot of my time hanging out at playgroups (I have a 6-month-old) lots of parents of pre-schoolers will tell me what they think of school A. I've asked the Executive Head to ensure that the consultation involves some active canvassing of the opinions of pre-school parents as there's clearly no point changing the name if those parents are going to all remortgage and send their children to StD or C's in order to avoid taking up a place at school A, rebranded or otherwise. I've also suggested that it would make rather more of a statement if school B were to be rebranded with school A's name so school A could be school A + it's road name and school B could be school A + it's road name. After all, school B doesn't rely on its name for its reputation plus its name holds no geographical significance and I've been unable to find out where its name came from in the first place! I can't imagine that suggestion will go down well though...

No, I don't think that would go down well at all! I think school B does rely on its name for its reputation. Certainly when I was there it was well known for being the best school for miles around.

I think maybe the only thing that will change people's perceptions of school A is a prolonged period of stability. About 7 years ago a new dynamic Head arrived at school A and there was a brief but dramatic improvement in results. Sadly he didn't stay and the school lurched from one temporary Head to another and results went down again. We arrived in the area around that time and decided to give the school a go. People who had lived in the area for longer were a lot more resistent to the idea of sending their dc there though. Some were even openly shocked that I had sent my dc there. Not many could really justify their prejudices about the school though. It was just that they had always thought of it as a school to avoid at all costs.

School A always suffered from the fact that there are plenty of other primary schools to choose from in the area - most within walking distance. I don't know of anyone who ended up there because they couldn't get in elsewhere. I think when ds and dd were there you could count the number of middle class parents on one hand. Having read 'what to wear on the school run' threads on here, I think this was not necessarily a bad thing but it certainly didn't reflect the immediate area which was pretty mixed in all respects, like most of the borough.

Targeting local playgroups is probably a good idea. That's where a lot of opinions and prejudices are formed. I knew a few parents who were at least thinking of sending their children to school A but got cold feet at the last minute probably because of all the negative things they had heard and because no one else they knew was considering it.