Which school would you choose?

[allaboutme]

Have to send in school preference form asap for DS to start next September.
DS has slight speech delay (see's SALT weekly) and probable mild ASD.

School A is 5 mins walk away.
It has a good ofsted report, average parent is middle class/reasonably well off, mostly english as first language pupils.
School has good facilities incl own swimming pool.
2 class intake of 30 in each class
SN provision seems fine/ok
Didnt meet head teacher - was shown around by secretary who referred us to various teachers to answer questions we asked.

School B is 15 mins walk away
It has a satisfactory ofsted report, v high proportion of free school dinners, intake is mainly from nearby council flats, fairly deprived area. unusually high amount of children starting with very poor or no english at all.
head teacher seems great, very enthusiastic, very inclusive
3 intake reception classes of no more than 20 in each class
SN seems very well catered for - school has on site SALT for several days a week, plus DS's community paediatrician actually works on site at the school some of the time
School seem very used to dealing with ASD

Am also trying to consider DS2 who will start school in 2 years and will HAVE to go to whichever school DS1 is at.

Am in dilemma over which school to choose - what do you think??

i had the same dilema when my ds started school (now 6 and in year 1). school A was 5 mins away and very similar to your school A, my school B was similar yours but 20 mins walk away and in the middle of the surrounding "not quite pleasant" council estate(but only a couple of children who didnt speak english as first language.

I chose B because for two reasons, the first being that as the school is in a "deprived area" the local authority give more funding to the school for special needs education. there are more children with special needs at the school and therefore ds wouldn't feel "different" (not quite the right word i think but you know what i mean. second reason was although he is making friends with families that are from the council estate we are from a fairly small town where everyone knows/knows of everyone else and if they are his friends they are not going to bully him or start fights with him for no reason and will look out for him.

About 90% of the parents dont work and most of the children get free school meals, some of the parents swear and have been in trouble with the police BUT they all love their children, what you see is what you get with them, there is no whispering behind your back.

ds gets the extra help (there are about four or five children in his class that need the extra help also, he doesnt feel he is the only one and the teacher have a very good knowledge of how to help the children because there have been and are so many children in the school that have special needs in one way or another.

thats my opinion and i hope it helps

For me, when I visited the schools, what I thought of the head made a big impact on how I felt about the school.
It's a shame you didn't get to meet the head of the first one.
No more than 20 in a class sounds good. How do they organise those classes after reception though?

there was a third reason and that was because it was a church of england school and although i am not religious i think all children should have some form of religious upbring, ie attend church etc as well as it being linked to the church i attended, got married etc

can you ask to go back to school A and actually see the Head? even if just for a 15min chat, it might help you decide

Thank you both.
I thought it was a shame we didnt get to meet the head of the first one too.
From what I have heard (from a teacher friend who has met her professionally) the headteacher is very dynamic and inspiring.
The school was in special measures over 3 years ago when she stepped in and turned it around and is now regarded as a good school again.

yes i might call again and see if we can see the head. i feel a bit like i'm making a massive fuss though, as she must delegate the school tours for her own reasons!

regarding school b and how they organise the classes after reception - they go back to 2 classes of 30 for year 1, so its only reception with the benefit of smaller classes..

No brainer! School A. And I'm a teacher. Schools in "rough" areas are rough, no matter how "great" and "enthusiastic" the head teacher is. And the "inclusive" thing means that the head teacher will not exclude disruptive and/or violent children who will disrupt your child's education - more than their job's worth! This type of head teacher is seen as a joke by children, staff and parents. School A.

Thanks insider. Its good to get a teacher point of view.
My friend who is a teacher said she would choose school A, but her child has no SN so thats my main sticking point i think.
What happens at school A if MY son is the one causing disruptions or extra work with his ASD? Will he be less helped/tolerated?
Or are most schools uo to scratch with SN knowledge and provision these days do you think??

Which school would your DS1 prefer to go to?

He isnt old enough or able to understand the choice yet tbh.
He is 4yo, doesnt play with other children so wouldnt be swayed by who was going where.
If he looked round both, he would pick the one he saw a picture car or train in or the one with the best colour door

Which school would you prefer your DS2 to go to, independently of the decision that you would maek for DS1?

Really Insider333? I know you're in the business but not all "inclusive" schools are like that. My ds goes to a very inclusive school - but that inclusivity doesn't extend to violent or disruptive behaviour and I don't think anyone thinks the head is a joke.

Having said my first impression is to go with school A, on the basis of the facilities and proximity. The Good Ofted for me is reassurance that it isn't terrible, rather than a ringing endorsement, if that makes sense. I could have sent ds to a school with an Outstanding but preferred the ethos and environment of the one I finally chose (which had a Good). It wouldn't necessarily be a deal breaker, basically.

I don't think you should feel like you're putting the head of school A out if you ask to talk to her, btw. You're not being unreasonable, particularly as you have concerns over your ds's speech/ASD. Your teacher friend's comments would proabably sway me a great deal, too.

Just because a school has loads of kids with SN doesnt mean they are good with them equally a school with few doesnt make them poor. what counts is attitude. every child is different. Are they willing to work with you, to learn , to work with incoming salts and take their knowledge on board. what is the whole school view of inclusion. A whole bunch of kids with SN doesnt make an inclusive school. whole school attitude does. The head should set the attitude of the school and unfortunatly teachers have had woefully little special needs training

I have to disagree with Insider333. My dds school is considered rough (by outsiders) but within the school the behaviour is immeccable. And the head will expell...

Teacher friends who taught there were very impressed with the behaviour. Also, reputations can be unfounded. It's considered rough by people who have no contact with the school but most of the parents are lovely.

i think you have to go back to both schools and specifically ask how they deal with SN and what extra support they offer and use that as your basis, not what other people think of the schools

Most schools are up to date with SN knowledge and provision, they wouldn't get a good OfStEd report if they weren't.

If your son were to cause disruption or need extra work, don't worry, he's not going to get excluded or be less helped or tolerated, the school would do all they could for him.

"Good" schools are usually good in every area it's important to be good in.

Unless you have a particular reason/child has a specific need that will be better dealt with elsewhere I think it makes sense for children to attend their closest school. As your son has SALT input it makes sense to look for the school that has the best provision provided he will be able to access it... if he attends school B will he still meet their criteria for receiving input at school

It makes sense to talk to his SALT and ask what their opinion is of the two schools plus arrange to talk to the SENCOs of the two schools to find out how you could expect your son's needs to be met in their school.

I've spent a long time teaching in a school similar to your B choice and am now at one more like school A... my personal feeling is that the teachers my old school worked so much harder to tailor things to children's needs/interests etc. as if we didn't then school just didn't work for the children whose own parents had had little/poor experiences of schooling themselves. At my previous school children who received SALT input benefitted from in-class support, SALT workers leading whole-class sessions, INSET training, feeding into policy development, attending SEN reviews, being available at parents' evenings etc.etc.

At my new school the intake is mixed but the teachers are less imaginative and the teaching less tailored to the needs of the children because there appears to be an assumption that the children's parents/backgrounds will fill in the gaps. What this means is that when a child needs support they really do stick out because the teachers aren't so skilled at thinking outside the box.

Beware of choosing a school based on OFSTED reports; they don't tell the whole story e.g. children who aren't in the UK system for Y2 'don't count' when it comes to looking at value added scores which means that a school such as your school B may be doing a wonderful job with getting new entrants (post Y2) who join the school unable to speak English to a level 4/5 at the end of Y6 but this won't feature in the data.

Do speak to the headteachers of both schools though - both the schools I've mentioned have Headteachers who always meet and chat to prospective parents.