Are private primaries really worth the money?

[wheelsonthebus]

What can be achieved at a private primary that state education and good tutoring can't achieve - and isn't it sometimes advantageous to be at a state school if you are planning to sit your child for a grammar (or doesn't it matter?). Thoughts please.

Which is what I did say Bythesea - that yes, it is quite possible.

It really does depend on the school and on the child. There are schools in both sectors that can create such environ,ents for young children to blossom. Likewise there are schools in both secotrs that can crush this too.

I do hate the idea that schools, esp at primary level, should be judged on their academic results.

That wasn't directed at you Hulababy as you did say that.

We are lucky to have a very good state primary close to us, which supports children in every way, with lots of opportunities for sport, art, music, drama and many other clubs which appeal to the children.

There is no doubt that, if you are primarily interested in 11+ entry to grammar school, then a decent state primary plus tutoring will get you there.

I suppose the biggest differences for my dcs between their old state primary and their prep school (because I can only compare these rather than the two entire sectors, naturally) are:
(1) much more emphasis on sport;
(2) a much greater range of after school activities;
(3) French and Latin taught as part of the curriculum (the primary school offered French club for 1 hour per week and the lessons were repeated each year so no progress was ever made);
(4) smaller classes - there truly is no-where to hide;
(5) Art taught in a dedicated art room;
(6) Science taught in science labs;
(7) teachers much more available than in the primary school;
(8) it's fine to be clever (and even a bit geeky) whereas it was seriously uncool in the primary school.

I feel they are receiving a much more rounded education than they did at the primary school. I emphasis again though that I am comparing two particular schools. There are some fab state primaries out there - just not near me, sadly!!!

Blu - sorry, lost track of who said what and what point being made by whom now!

(I was state primary and indie grammar educated - clearly neither did me any feckin' good at all as it would seem I cannot even fathom a thread on the tinterwebby now)

I personally think that private primary schools are a waste of money. I considered putting my dd in a private primary, i did my research and visited a number of schools. Tbh, i was not impressed by most of them and didn't think they were worth the money. My dd is in a brilliant Catholic school, which has excellent facilities. She is learning how to speak French and receives free violin and piano lessons.
People who think that they are receiving a superior standard of education by going to private primaries are deceiving themselves. I do however believe that at secondary level, private school education may be beneficial.

it seems to me that private primaries often seem to achieve the same or higher standards in the basic subjects in a smaller amount of teaching time which allows them to do more 'other stuff' as well. With the longer holidays as well and no need for tutoring in the evenings a lot of the children seem to do even more other stuff outside school. Of course if you have a child who isn't really into extra curriculars that's not a great advantage, but if you have one that is then maybe it is.

Smaller class sizes.

My child is at a great state primary and all the other stuff mentioned on this thread is there, other than the small class size. So for me, that is the only marked benefit of a private primary over a really good state primary. Our state primary does try to address this - as well as a teacher and full time T/A for every class, they have rolling student teachers, parent helpers and learning mentors in class as ofte as possible. There are usually a minimum of 3 and often 4 or 5 adults in my son's class of a day, which is better than nowt, I suppose.

my ds goes to a private school which consists of pre-prep, prep and senior school on one campus - he is in pre-prep currently and I like the idea of him being able to stay at the same school until he is 18 without the major upheavals that come with a change of school. We do not live in a grammar school area and our local secondary schools are appallingly bad with the exception of one church school which is ridiculously oversubscribed each year.

As with everything, it depends on the child and it depends on the school - there are some bad and some good state schools and there are some good and some bad private schools - only you know what is the best choice for your child in your area.

lazymum: I think there may be a difference between what people call a private primary and a prep school though. Private primaries may be more appropriate for 11+ transfer.

Correct - where we live (Lancs) all the private primaries are up to yr 6. The private secondaries all start at year 7.
The leavers from DDs school go on to a mix of private, grammar and other state schools at the normal age. Preparation for 11+ is done in exactly the same way as preparation for the various private entrance exams.

Not like properly posh prep/public schooling down south and not quite so eye-wateringly expensive either

I am 100% certain the I made the right decision to send my DS1 to private primary.

• small classroom sizes. In reception, there were 12 with 1 teacher and 1 assistant dedicated to the class. DS1's reading was listened to every day and in one year, he zoomed from being able to read a few words to ORT level 13. Additionally, he was given special additional work to stretch himself, and many independent projects to work on (only he was given this work because he was so ahead of his peers).

-any people with special needs on either size are spotted and cared for immediately. There are 2 specialist teachers in the school to support those who are struggling. DS1 was placed into a special math class with 3 other boys because they were perceived to be very able. I have 2 friends whose sons were struggling with reading relative to the other boys and they were also in a special small class to work on this area. I also know one mother who had a son with a slight speech impediment, and he was seeing someone at the school. -Boys need to let off steam, and here they have PE 4 times a week, and Games on the fifth day. -there is a fabulous rapport between the parents and teachers. DS1 was being a bit daydreamy in the beginning of this year, and the teacher e-mailed me to meet with both myself and DH about this (not slacking in terms of results, but he was just coasting and she knew he could do better). I get daily feedback from her on his day, and I know that if any issue came up, she would contact me. If I had any issue, I would be able to contact her. -The school does all the main teaching, and there is no need for any outside tutors. We spend hometime doing our own projects and having fun. -Really flexible wraparound care (they have a late club which you can do on a last minute basis). -great emphasis on charity work for the boys to do -No following national guidelines, and no worries about silly Health and Safety regulations ruining good fun for the boys.

In summary, I am getting a challenging education for a bright (well, for now), active son, with a curriculum which is individually tailored to him.

On the second issue, I don't know yet and will decide close to the time he would be eligible (but I don't think there are any Grammars close to where we live).

If you can afford it, try a private school. You can always go back to the state sector.

A lot of these posts seem to emphasise the importance of wrap around care. I think that's a strong appeal of private primaries/prep- working mothers need the longer hours which is fair enough.

As lots of posters have said, it's really about the individual school. I was quite shocked when looking round the private schools recently to think that in 2 out of 3 cases my children would actually probably be worse off despite paying.

With regards to the NC, only the most expensive school I looked round did not completely stick to this (although I suspect it used the NC guidelines and resources). The other 2 made it clear that they followed the NC.

With regard to the OP's query, I believe there are some parts of the UK whereby grammar schools can legally favour state school applicants (Poole is one I think). In my part of the world this doesn't apply, and state and private are equal. I think a lot of children receive extra tuition in exam technique regardless of which type of school they attend.

Pagwatch - no quite right, am not suggesting that all prep school boys are mollycoddled - just that I have seen boys who are unable/unwilling to feed themselves in my ds' class and was trying to counter the ridiculous claim that state school pupils were more likely to need help with practical stuff but did it in a very hamfisted way. As usual.

The school holidays we dont find too much of a problem tbh - the 'extra' weeks are the one we usually go on holiday in because they are so much cheaper. we tend to use the supercamps option in the weeks that ds would have been off at a state school anyway ie August.

Totally down to the individual school. My 2 thrive in a class of 30, they're well divided into ability groups and have a teacher + a TA plus a parent helper all day every day and I actively discounted looking at private schools with classes of less than 20 because especially in a mixed school they can bring their own social problems even if they work academically

The private schools near us have one focus and that is getting the children into the leading independent schools at 7 or 11. They overload the children with the most ridiculous amount of homework and most of the children are tutored on top of that. From year 2 they also sit exams in class each term, I am not interested in that. My kids are covering very similar work in a much less stressful environment. The parents at our school expect high standards, they expect the children to have an interesting and varied curriculum albeit NC and the school delivers it. Discipline is outstanding and the teachers know each and every child by name, I am constantly in awe of how they run that school.

I agree that the sports facilities may be lacking in state schools but the little tiny private schools in converted houses offer none of those either, I feel sorry for the kids at our local prep going up to the park for games when ours can do it in the school grounds, I wouldn't pay for that. I am more than happy to supplement my kids sports education with out of school classes.

A private primary would be my first option if the state options round here were poor but they're not so despite looking in state and private we've gone the state route and haven't looked back.

Yes, having helped out at my children's school I am also totally in awe of how professional and thorough the teachers are. The head is an old school disciplinarian type which pervades the school, high standards expected of everyone- teachers and pupils alike.

My only gripe is that because my child is average academically, she gets a bit overlooked and the children at the top and the bottom get the most attention. However I would also worry about her being in a very small group of girls and not having many friends to choose from.

With regard to facilities, it is true that private primaries in converted old houses are often crampt and lacking in grounds. One I recently looked had a hall/assembly area which was also the basement gym and it was really quite depressing like an underground cavern. No wonder they weren't having a Christmas play (although we did find this a bit shocking as our state primary has endless plays/assemblies- too many!).

I recently registered DD in a prep school after much consideration.
Reasons:
Class sizes. The prep school currently has 6 in its reception. Maximum per class 15. The local outstanding state primary had 30+ in each class and was oversubscribed at that with 140 applications for 60 reception places.

Standard of behaviour. The prep school children's behaviour was brilliant. Very polite, considerate confident and mature.

Parents. A very active PTA with a close community feel at the prep. Parents and teachers supporting each other.

I think it depends on the individual schools in your area and the individual child. A bright, confident child of motivated parents would do equally well at both but a child perhaps with poor concentration or one that is naturally shy might really benefit from the extra one to one attention.

The main advantage of a private school would be the smaller class sizes, which can be important when the children are young.
Other things such as better sports facilities, after school clubs, etc are not really relevant until yr 3 upwards and also can be compensated for to some extent by the parents taking the child to after school classes, etc.

Other points that people have raised eg better identification of child's individual needs, standards of behaviour, neat appearance, good rapport with parents can be achieved equally well in the state sector and depend on the quality of teachers (and motivation of the parents) which varies in both sectors.
For children with special needs, in my experience the state sector provides a fantastic level of support and one to one care for children on a statement. Within the private sector, parents usually have to pay more for this sort of extra support and some schools don't seem to cater at all.

It is never going to be possible to actually perform research on the subject and most parents who pay for their children's education are clearly going to see it as money well spent.
Good luck with your decision!