Moving from NZ to London - where to live for good primary school

[KiwiEmma]

Hi there, we're planning to London from NZ early in 2010, and I'm trying to work out where to live so that I can get the girls into a good primary school (one will be 4.5, the other just turned 7 when we move).

We can live absolutely anywhere in the greater London area, the only requirement is that DH can commute into the city in about 30 - 45 mins, and that we can get into a decent school. We're planning to live fairly simply in a small house/flat, so I think that most suburbs outside the really posh places are affordable.

The only sort of place I don't want to move to is an area full of fantastic schools that I cannot get the girls into, or dubious schools that I can get them into.

Is there such a place to live?? I've done loads of research on the internet and am starting to think this is an impossible search!

Many thanks for any help you can give. I've posted this on the primary forum too, sorry to double up but I wasn't sure which board would get more replies.

Emma

do you mean 30-45 mins door to door?
what station does your DH want to reach?

Check out admission deadlines - if your dd will be 4.5 when you move you may well find that you have missed the deadline and will be at the bottom of the waiting list - unless you go private of course.

I'd vote for SW London - Richmond maybe?

Sorry, let's say 30 mins to a station like Waterloo or picadilly, I'm trying to cast the net really widely!

Oops, another thing I should have said. I'm assuming we'll miss deadlines so i'd only be able to get them into a school that had actual vacant spaces. They do exist don't they??

hey kiwiemma

how about Dulwich? It's a 12 minute train ride to London Bridge (for the City)/Victoria (closer to West End) - depending on which end of Dulwich you're at. There are 3 train stations and lots of buses go into the city/west end - although these take ages in the morning.

There are a fair few primary schools in the area, some better than others obviously (I have no personal experience as my dd is only 2.5, but have already started looking into).

Lovely child friendly area, great park,nice cafes/bars. Far enough out to be away from the hustle. Close to the Kent border so good for days out in the country. Pain in the arse for going up North as you have to drive all the way across london first which can take at least an hour.

Here's a link about the area. Check Ofsted for schools.

you'd be hard pushed to find vacant places after deadlines in London!

and yes, Richmond is super lovely. Pretty pricey though so depends on your budget.

I agree. I think you'll find all the primary schools in the London Borough of Richmond are reasonably good many are excellent. Homewise you'll find better value for money in the Hampton or Teddington areas but longer commute times (30 mins into Waterloo).

Good luck!

Sorry to say but not many (possibly no?!) schools will have vacant places in London. Primary school places are a real issue at the moment, particularly in London but also nationwide - somebody's sums didn't quite work out with immigration, credit crunch (forcing people from private to state sector) and birth rates so it is a bit of a disaster and there are random additional classes based in church halls and the like. I think the local authority has to find something for you though, even if you move to the area after the deadline. Probably best to call one or two and check situation.

Camden is very good for tube access to most zone 1 stations (20-30 mins should do it) and has some great primary schools (but not secondary, esp if you have boys, so beware if you think you may be staying longer term)!. There are some great facilities for kids there and beautiful parks - Regents Park, Primrose Hill and London Zoo on your doorstep. Try and avoid ending up close to Camden High Rd where market is though, unless you enjoy the company of several million tourists every weekend .

Richmond has (or did have) the best state primary schools in the country and it is a lovely place to live with the river and park close by, but it is a longer trip on the tube to get in and out (I would allow 45mins-1hr). There is an overland train that takes 20mins into Waterloo but of course these aren't as frequent as the tubes so you should probably have an hour's commute in mind unless your DH will be based in West London area so closer.

have to say, if we could afford it we'd be over Richmond way ... my parnter is a kiwi and drools over it on the odd occassion that we get over there

There was an article in the London Evening Standard yesterday that was really shoking about the desperate shortage of primary school places. Caused by lack of funding and people being forced by the recession to put DCs in state primary rather than send them private.

It is always going to be a struggle to find a good primary school place in London and many people move out because of it.

The other bonus with LB Richmond for you is school places do come up often as people more away from the area or move their dc's to private schools.

most boroughs do have spaces - they are just at the schools noone wants to send their kids too

it doesn't matter if you miss the deadline
people slot into the waiting list according to the admissions criteria
eg if you live nearest you jump to the top of the list

I would look at where in the City he needs to be and look at Mainline train stations and their commuter belt. e.g. Liverpool St station, Moorgate. Look along the lines and look for fast trains and see how far 45 minutes will get you.
If you wish to live in Greater London and be 30 minutes away from the City I don't think you will find a place in a reasonable school easily at all. This is the Holy Grail. We are all after it. Those of us living in London and working in the City have spent many years preparing for school entry. You need to be realistic. A commute of 45min- 1 hr out of a mainline station is more of a realistic option.

Thanks that is very helpful. I've contacted a few local authorities and even some schools directly but they all just say, sorry it's a catch 22 but you can't apply til you get here, we don't know what spaces we will have, and call us when you get here.

I thought maybe I just had bad luck, but if it's the same all over London, I guess not. But what if it is mid-term and all the schools in the burough are full - would they send you to the other side of London?

I'm not sure, but as an incomer you might actually get to the top of primary waiting lists for dc1. For dc2 it depends on the timing.

KiwiEmma I think we need more precise info - you said DH needs to commute to the city, but the stations you mention are not city stations - one is a southbank mainline station (with a tube as well) and the other is a tube station in the west end. Can you narrow it down? Is he going to be in the west end or the city? (there is a world of difference!!).

Emma X posted

Will dc1 be year 3? Schools have more flexibility with class numbers at this age.

Crouch end/Stroud Green is really nice and has a train line which runs down to the city, or you can walk to the Tube (finsbury park)

The area has several "outstanding" primary schools and lots of "good" ones but all the outstanding ones are oversubscribed.

When exactly is DD2's birthday? Because this will affect which school year she goes into. If she is going into reception (ie her birthday is after Sept 2010) then you will be in for a real struggle I'm afraid, as you will be applying after the Jan 2010 deadline.

If her birthday is before Sept 2010 then she will be going into the second year of primary. Paradoxically, it might be easier the further you get up the school, as London schools are usually less oversubscribed for the older years as people move out.

One thing to note is that if your DD2's 5th birthday is after Sept 2010 you do not have to send her to school until Sept 2011, so if you can't get into the school of your choice then you could wait and reapply then. You also get preference for having a sibling in the school, so if your older child got in, your younger child would definitely be eligible the following year.

School placements are quite complicated with no fixed catchment area - the area changes each year according to the number of applications and the number of siblings on the list, essentially they take special needs cases, then siblings, and then award places starting from children closest to the school. So in a year with a lot of siblings, not even living on the doorstep will guarantee you a place.

One important thing to clarify - by "the City" - do you really mean the City (ie the financial district down near Liverpool station) or do you just mean the centre of town? Only because Piccadilly is nowhere near what London people would call the City. If you mean you need to get into central London then say that, as the City means a very specific area to Londoners. And as London is VERY big, even quite central areas can have a very long commute.

Hi KiwiEmma,

I'd have a look at in the London borough of Barnet if I were you! I lived there for 25 years and my DS went to primary and secondary schools in Finchley.

The borough overall has some of the highest performing schools in London, but there are enough good schools at primary level to make it possible to find somewhere decent at this late stage. There are lots of lovely parks and green open spaces, relatively low crime, and good local transport links. The area is also high up geographically, and is away from the more polluted and congested parts of the city.

The "nicest" areas are found along the High Barnet branch of the Northern Line, from Highgate up to High Barnet. Travel into central London by tube takes 30-45 minutes depending on how far out you live, with trains every 5 minutes during peak hours.

If money is no problem, then Hampstead and Muswell Hill are worth looking at as well.

Rents for 2 bed flats (in the outer parts of the borough) are from £1,000 - £1,500 per month for 2 large bed flats up to small 3 bed flats/houses, Highgate/Hampstead are much more expensive.

Check out schools here and rental properties here in the following postcodes: N2, N3, N12, NW7, N20, N22, EN3, EN4.

HTH and goold luck with your move!

"Thanks that is very helpful. I've contacted a few local authorities and even some schools directly but they all just say, sorry it's a catch 22 but you can't apply til you get here, we don't know what spaces we will have, and call us when you get here."

That is true - but what they can tell you is what the catchment area was for a particular school last year.

This won't be a guarantee (as I said, you could get a year with a lot of siblings which would be just bad luck) but it does give you a rough idea of where to start.

I would pick a family friendly area - like Crouch End, or Richmond, or Dulwich - and do this according to your DH's commute. London transport info here with rough journey times (go to journey planner and put in a made up journey).

Then when you've narrowed down your area, have a look at Ofsted reports for this area, info here

This will tell you which schools in the area are good. Ring up the LEA and ask them for information on whether these specific schools were oversubscribed for 2009, and what their intake area was for this year.

This should give you enough info to be going on with, but the crucial info is 1) exactly when your DD2's birthday is and 2) exactly where your DH will be working. Without that, the advice you get will be a bit vague.

Thanks, he will be in the City, what I meant by mentioning those stations is stations with a lot of connections.

I know London is big and I'm being vague, but I'm just trying to get a wide range of ideas, because I only know about the specific north London area that I lived in many years ago, and of course know of nothing child-friendly.

Dd 1 will be 7 on 1 Feb, and dd2 will be 5 on 11 August.

Thanks so much, I really appreciate your comments.

Emma

I was brought up in High Barnet. It's at the end of the Northern line. Plenty of decent schools.

You might also want to look at living outside of London as commuted within London can be a lot longer - for eg it would take 50 minutes to get from Richmond to Liverpool Street Station in the city, but only 30 minutes to get there from (say) Billericay in Essex.

And you would get a lot more for your money outside London. But perhaps you want to be in town for other reasons?

here is the South East Rail Network map which shows which towns are well connected to the City.

The important question is whether you are moving for good, or just for a few years?

If the latter, then you have more options as there are boroughs where you will be able to get your DC into good primary schools but where the options for good secondaries for your older DS are very limited - this includes Islington which was one of the very few areas that the Evening Standard article showed there weren't shortages.

Question 2, how do you feel about faith schools? Again this will open up your options in some areas.