Would you send your child to a CofE primary school if you didn't believe in god?

[mooki]

We are both atheists. I am more of a 'well any one can believe what they like as long as it doesn't hurt anyone else', my husband takes more of a Dawkins-style stance that people who believe in god/religion are just plain wrong.

We are looking to move to a quieter village but the only area we can afford has a C of E primary school. It gets a good Ofsted and lots of people tell me that the 'christian ethos' leads to better behaviour.

I understand that there is a weekly act of worship. The actual RE curriculum is set out to include a variety of beliefs and faiths and I'm sure the curriculum is the curriculum and you can't go adding in religious content willy nilly but I think my husband is worried there will be creationism in science lessons and that religion /the bible will be presented as fact rather than faith.

DD will obviously make her own mind up eventually. I rather think if we are totally dismissive of religion/s she is likely to rebel and become a 7th day adventist but is attending a CofE school actually likely to influence her particulalry?

We are planning to visit the school and meet the head but in the mean time -

would you send your child to a CofE school if you don't believe in god?

if your child is at a CofE school, is there much overt religiousness or is it more 'be nice to people'?

I live in a place where the choice is between 4 religious schools (1 x catholic, 3 x CofE) and two that have recently come out of special measures. So the choice is not only between the religious school or not, but how much, if any hypocrisy I need to display in order to get her in.

It makes my brain bleed every time I think about it. At the moment the only plan I have is moving area entirely (not having the temperament, I don't think, for HE)

In response to OP, BIL does.

Yes, and will. Local village school.

sixfold - if you have no other option, then I think your belief in doing the best you can for your child in the circumstances outweighs non-belief in something that doesn't exist. Its not your fault you're in this situation. Its the churches who are being hypocritical by essentially forcing church attendance on people who don't believe.

All very well to say "I wouldn't" but what if there is no other choice? Stacks of state sponsored schools are religious and if you have no others near you then what to do. HE?

FWIW all schools are supposed to have a daily act of worship which in most schools is CofE.

If I lived in much of the UK and didn't have the money for private schooling or the time / ability to manage on one income to home educate, I wouldn't have much choice.

I'm a life-long atheist, and send/have sent both DCs to a CofE primary. Not much choice round here either, and we arrived back in UK middle of a school year, so had to take the only place available, which was at a CofE school (but voluntary controlled rather than voluntary aided, ie admissions run by council so you don't have to claim to be religious to get in).

There is religious stuff around (though they also have assemblies etc on other religions, eg last week Diwali), but in DS's case that had the opposite effect to what was intended: they have a "children's minister" who came in from the local church to do a weekly assembly, and he found her so ridiculous and annoying that he went from a vague belief in god to outspoken atheism (with no egging on from me, I might add). The minister tries so hard to be "down with the kids" (as she would probably put it) and fails completely - eg lots of assemblies trying to put moral points across with equal helpings of the bible and High School Musical, or Deal or No Deal.

So, any worries I had that the DCs would come home and try to convert me were completely unfounded. DS is now annoying the RS teacher in his new school with his views...

I had a RC upbringing and am real athiest.

I think it depends on personality/how your brain is made up whether you believe or not, if you come from open family.

Obviously if you are from v religious (or athiest or whatever) family and get it a lot at home and all your friends are from church/whathaveyou then more likely you will be indoctrinated.

I went to C of E schools and am a governor at one now.

As has already been said, apart from the collective worship, the Christian ethos is communicated mainly through a message about being kind and thoughtful. That is not to say - and I've never heard it said at school - that other people of other faiths or no faith aren't kind and thoughtful too; it's just that those are values which Christians (like many others) espouse.

You'll have to decide (obviously) how comfortable you will be with the daily worship, grace before meals etc. I agree, though, that it's probably the children who've had no contact with religion who end up joining wacky cults.

Thank you all for your thoughts.

It is a village school so I imagine quite a few parents will send children there as the closest option rather than because they opt for a Christian school.

I wish, like Ivykaty44, that religion and schools were kept separate.

I guess I hope DD would be inquisitive enough to make up her own mind.

I didn't go to a CofE school (but also experienced the god made everything hymns at my primary.) I did used to go to Sunday school with a friend and ended up asking my agnostic/atheist parents to let me get baptised when I was about 8. They were cool with it and my aunty who is an ordained priest and a nun was overjoyed. It obviously didn't stick though...

We moved to this village for the CofE primary and we are both Dawkins-type atheists. I went to one myself - and it didn't do me any lasting damage

The village is quite churchy but there are other heathens about - you soon find each other. I am not keen on some fo the stuff I see on the school walls but I do actually quite like the off-the-fence approach to ethics and good/kind behaviour.

Depends on the type of CofE school. As a previous poster said, there are two types of CofE schools - voluntary controlled and voluntary aided.

Can't remember which way round it is, but one has the admissions set by the local authority, and follows the locally agreed RE syllabus of the local authority.

The other type however, is free to set its own admissions policy and in RE can follow the syllabus set by the local diocese. These schools tend to be quite religious in nature, and I would not feel comfortable sending my daughters there.

If the admissions is set by the local authority, then they are quite close in nature to community schools - there's not that much difference between them, and I wouldn't have a problem with that.

The only thing I do insist on is that my DD is not forced to pray. If she wants to, then all well and good but I don't agree with her being told to if she doesn't want to. If it came to it, I would insist she is removed from collective worship if the school could not respect her right to sit quietly whilst other children prayed. Otherwise, I don't really mind!

Agree with the others, op, it really does depend on the school.
The C of E primary that my Dcs attend say prayers morning, lunch and at the end of the school day. They also have collective worship and attend church with the school on christian festival days (Harvest, Christmas, Easter and a special service for the 'leavers' every summer.)
I am a practising christian so this is fine with me but I'm not sure how all of that 'worship' would fit with an atheist family.

Def worth checking specifics with the school.

Yep I would because as I've discovered the religious aspect is there anyway in state schools - you just can't seem to shake it. My kids are asked to pray everyday at a state primary.
I was brought up as a Catholic - went to Catholic school - decided at secondary level - well more accurately developed the balls to admit it wasn't for me, they respected my views and I was never forced or even encouraged to worship, I just stood with my head bowed waiting for it it to stop.

Don't get me started on those awful hymms - they are banned in communal areas of our house.

How many lies are encouraged from the faith schooling system, it's sinful!!! - makes me giggle at all this Christian ethos and so many people lying to get in - in our local town the Church attendence soared when the local faith school starting insisting on letters from the ministers.

My kids are at a VC school - they have assembly most mornings, where they will have a talk on something - might be something like harvest, or could be something in the news - they did lots on Barack Obama. Usually there's a theme for the week like 'Sharing' or 'Our achievements'. They'll also sing a song/hymn, and usually have a prayer. The vicar comes in once a week, and they have 1 service a term in the church.

The main thing I like (as a Christian) is that they aren't afraid of things like the nativity, and don't worry about having to 'neutralise' any Christian festivals. They also mark Diwali, Eid etc in assembly, as the school is very multi-cultural.

well, I do, but wouldn't go so far as to recommend it. DP has been told he was wrong about his (admirably scientific ) explanation of the weather cycle, because apparently it was God and nothing else it could have been, cos Miss X said so. Also there is so much hymn singing in this house now - it goes in insidiously!

But - I went to CofE schools myself and it had the effect of making me a staunch atheist!

stickylittlefingers, that is totally not our experience. The kids are very well taught in science, no creationism in sight.

just shows that the schools differ in their interpretation of what being a CofE school should mean - even from teacher to teacher, as it's not as bad this year as last.

There have been plenty of threads on MN which show that ours is not an uncommon experience.

Apart from home-eding, it's hard to get away from religion in schools, so we just have to expect to have some tricky discussions at home, I think.

if it was an over-subscribed school with church attendance as an entrance criteria - I would rather .
If it was THE village school, very little choice, everyone goes, i just happens to be CoE, yes.

All schools have to have an act of worship (many flout it and make do with broader assembly material).

It isn't creationism in science lessons that is likely to be an issue at all - it's the easy way stuff like 'God sends the rain' slips into al sorts of conversations. Or views on marriage, homosexuality etc. And whether you see it as an advantage or a point of tension that your child constantly encounters views rom thise in authority that differ from yours.

My OH and I have very similar opinions regarding religion as you and your OH Mooki.

My DS1 started school in September - a large primary school with no religious affiliation (I actually went there too when I was little).

They sing religious songs in assembly and he has come home a few times asking who/what God is etc (which was quite hard to explain). They had a Harvest festival last week in a church affiliated community centre but parents weren't invited so not sure how much actual religious content there was.

I am also a secondary school teacher (in a non-affiliated comprehensive) - and I know that by law (and Ofsted specifically look for it when inspecting) there is meant to be some kind of daily act of worship going on. In our school (and a lot of others) we don't have the space to have a full school assembly everyday but we have things like 'thought for the day'. We also have end of year concerts/award giving assemblies in the local church - which is a beautiful building but is a bit hypocritical I think. And of course all secondary kids have to do Religious Studies.

I don't think you can ever completly avoid it, and I think that to a certain extent they need to know that there is a system of beliefs that some people believe in and some don't.

Yes, I do. Village with one school in, it's CofE. As are the ones in the nearest 3 villages. To find a non-CofE primary would mean a car journey to the nearest town, rather than walking to school with all his friends from the village - and the CofE bit doesn't bother me enough to make that sacrifice. And even if we did travel the distance to find a non CofE primary, they still (should) do the collective worship thing.

I did not have to prove any Christian leanings to get boy into the school - because it's a village school admission is done purely on catchment.

I would not pretend to be religious to get my children into a school, that would be very hypocritical of me.

I also teach science in a CofE school - and there is certainly no creationism in my lessons - (and I didn't pretend to be religious to get the job!)

A daily act of worship is the law in schools as others have said.

Tho it can take the form of a simple assembly/gathering.

Anyway, to answer yr question, the thing is that a lot of villages have only a CofE primary. So you will prob find a good mix of folk there - including atheists - in a way that I imagine you don't in Catholic schools for example.

So I guess I would - tho it's hard for me to answer as we are churchgoers. I don't believe in creationism actually and I don't know anyone who does, FWIW.

i dont believe in god but the local infant and junior schools are CofE

they are v good schools, regardless of the religious aspect

so yes would and do send mine to one

the staff and the head are all v nice

noone has tried to convert me yet, and they do teach about other faiths as well

my dc's have not turned into religious fanatics

yes

and catholic school