Do state school children ever join independent school clubs (after school)?

[thedolly]

I'm thinking particularly about orchestra. The local state primary doesn't have one but the prep school does.

Does anyone have an experience of this happening?

The Dolly what grade is your DD playing at? Perhaps even though she is younger, a local orchestra might take her early if she is playing at a higher standard than an average 8 year old?
Where we live there is a beginner strings orchestra for grade one and under, an intermediate for up to grade three, another for grade 3-5 and then they join the main orchestra. Age doesn't come into it, it is playing standard that counts. DD2 has played in the beginner orchestra since she started cello, although she hasn't done any grades yet.

Grade 2-3 although it is difficult to tell as she plays Suzuki and so hasn't done any grades. Her teacher says def. grade 2 and working 'towards' grade 3. She has been having term time lessons for 2 years.

I was thinking of contacting the local youth orchestra and asking them if they had any ideas. In fact I must do it now .

definitely contact them thedolly - I don't think their orchestras are strictly limited to 11+. I know someone who did 'young strings' in primary school (need to be minimum grade 4 as I recall for that) and they were a suzuki player too. The area orchestras will also have some age flexibility I think.

How is your dd's sightreading? Sometimes that lags a bit with suzuki, but it's worth persisting with as it's really important for orchestra playing.

Her sight reading is fairly good as she also plays piano. She's about to take grade 2 in that.

She is neither old enough nor proficient enough for any of town/county orchestras around.

My next idea is a local Middle School with an after school orchestra but we are in the same position as before wrt performances.

middle school sounds a good idea - If her new school is a feeder for it, then they might well give her time off to go to performances there I would think.

I used to go to music school at 8. Most counties will have a music centre catering for that age child to be in an orchestra. They have different levels and different age orchestras and you progress through them as you do your grades.

I would imagine the prep school orchestra will have day time practice for performances that your dd wouldn't be able to attend so I'm not sure that would be a realistic option.

I'm surprised her violin teacher hasn't let you know what the available options are.

I suppose I could ask her violin teacher - I never thought of that.

There are group Suzuki lessons and a variety of workshops etc but it's all very 'Suzuki'. DD loves 'it' but she is keen to progress with her reading so that she can take part in an orchestra and learn other non - Suzuki repertoire pieces.

Thanks to all of you for taking the time to reply. I am coming round to the idea that perhaps finding an alternative to the Prep school will be best all round.

Update for anyone who is interested:

As DD's piano teacher has suggested continuing lessons with him at the prep school I thought I would email the Head and ask if it might be possible for DD to maintain some level of involvement with the orchestra, perhaps joining in with practice before her piano lesson.

The response was:

'Sadly it is not appropriate for DD to remain part of the school's music provision once she is no longer part of the school.'

I'm not sure what to think really. Should I be looking for a new piano teacher?

That sounds like he doesn't know about the music teacher's plan to keep teaching her there... I think you need to speak to the teacher and check that he has made sure it will be ok, as it will be up to the school to decide whether she can come in to have the lesson.

You may well have to find a new teacher, unless the current teacher could come to you?

That's what I was thinking AMum. The piano teacher is the ex director of music (retired) at the school and has probably been there for eons. I think it would be a bit awkward sending DD there to him for lessons now. He lives too far away to come to our house unfortunately.

The more I think about this the er I become. The school has had a lot of charity from some very generous benefactors especially with regards music provision (a whole new building ). It seems a shame that the Head is choosing to be less than charitable on this occasion.

Sorry that it hasn't worked out, but presumably not a huge surprise? Certainly at the dcs school several pupils who have left continue to particpate in "paid-for" (ie additional to school fee) lessons and activities eg swimming, holiday clubs etc. It would be trickier with the stuff that comes along with the fee eg I'd assume that the pupils weren't paying extra to do orchestra.

The school has benefitted from huge private donations on the music front. DD played at a reception for the benefactors and they sent a lovely note saying how much they had enjoyed her performance (along with a very favourable critic of it ). I think it is sad that the Head has been less than charitable to DD on this occasion.

So yes, I am a bit surprised LadyMuck.

What has the fact that it is been privately funded by benefactors got anything to do with it? They presumably knew that they were donating to an independent school, and that the facilities would be used for that school? They could have donated to other organisations if they wanted nonpupils to benefit. The fact that the donations are legally classified as "charitable" is a bit of a red herring I think.

The dolly, it sounds as if you want it every which way. You paid for your daughter to go to that school so she could enjoy all those facilities, now you can no longer afford it yet you still want her to benefit from the ones that she likes. Asking the head to accept her back into after-school activities is the thin end of the wedge for him. What about other children who have left the school and who are particularly talented at music, singing, sport? Should they also be allowed to participate - or even welcomed back with open arms, as you seem to be suggesting? Maybe the head should start actively looking around other schools to cherry-pick a couple of good percussionists or a talented rugby player for his school?

DD has private violin lessons that are nothing to do with the school yet the school has been happy to show her off at high profile music events such as the reception that I mentioned. I think (perhaps wrongly so) that the benefactors of the new music school may feel slightly aggrieved if they knew that DD was being denied the opportunity to continue playing with the orchestra.

Are you kidding? If the benefactors of the music school cared, they would have made some kind of open-access policy part of the conditions of their funding. Your dd is ONE former pupil at the school who is reasonably talented at music (it doesn't sound as if she is at, or approaching, prodigy level). At a guess, I would say there will be quite a number of children at the school and generally in the wider community who will be at Grade 2/3 in their particular instrument at her age. I think you are struggling with your own feelings about moving your children from this school and casting about for hooks to hand your feelings on.

ROFL! Really?
Surely the only reason that she is being deprived is that you have chosen to remove her from the school. I guess you could approach the benefactors to see if they could think about funding scholarships to allow more to access the facilities, but unless they specifically had your dd in mind when donating (eg because they are relatives or godparents or something) then you're on a hiding to nothing.

Can't you see that feepaying parents might be slightly aggrieved if you were able to pick and choose the best bits of their school for no payment? To say nothing of potentially depriving their child from a place in the orchestra or performance?

You may be right about the benefactors not caring annh.

DD is definitely not a prodigy but she has performed quite a few times and delighted an audience or two at the school.

I have struggled a lot with my feelings about moving the DC but I am reconciled to them now. I think it would have been a nice gesture on behalf of the school to say 'oh do come and join in with our orchestra rehearsals DD, it would be so lovely if you could'. I can't see that it would be any skin off their nose. The teacher in charge of the orchestra would love her to stay and her piano teacher has invited her to continue with lessons at the school.

I think the whole thing is terribly unkind and I won't be rushing back to that particular school should we win the lottery.

Obviously I don't think DD should be given preference over any of the children at the school.

Of course I can see that feepaying parents might be slightly aggrieved but I also think that it is mean spirited of them to feel that way. I wouldn't and there are others on this thread who wouldn't either.

thedolly i can't believe this thread is back.

these are private facilities that you used to pay for. you have made the decision to remove your daughter to save money. on what basis should the people who are still paying feel inclined to allow your daughter free access?
v easy to say you would allow it in their position, but that's not being tested here is it?

I would happily pay what was required but the point is that it is not about money. It is about us and them. It's all rather distasteful.

It works the other way too though. A local state school will happily allow my daughter to join in with their saturday morning netball practice but will not allow her privately educated friend to.

I think it's all rather and divisive when it really needn't be.

but the whole point is that it is about money. the other parents are fully committed to the school - they pay fees for the privileges and facilities they receive.

you can't opt in and out to suit yourself.

it's not snobbery, it's life. you either pay for the full service or you don't.

to be honest i'm not aware of any school (independent or state) which would happily welcome a non-pupil to join in a ny of their activities.

Yes, and the school is fully committed to the pupils just as long as you hand over your X grand a term. But as soon as you cease to do so, don't bother asking for a small favour (because that is all it really is).

The school has a range of free after school activities 5 days a week. We have only ever availed of 1 after school activity per week. So if you want to be picky about it, we have not been in receipt of all that we have paid for. Oh yes, but we did have a choice, right? Well, the way I see it is that the school had the choice to allow DD to join in with the orchestra but the Head decided that it would not be appropriate.

It is my opinion that he has made a decision that is not worthy of my respect. It is obviously worthy of yours gladders.

Welcome to the real world dolly. They only care if you are paying them to do so.