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Original poster

Are you in favour of religion in state schools?

67 replies

seeker · 08/09/2009 17:00

On the highly unscientific poll currently running, so far it's 50 posters in favour of secular schools and 4 against.

Would any of the people who are in favour like to tell me why?

We're not talking about learning ABOUT religion - Christian and other. I think most people are agreed that a knowledge of world religions is an essential part of a balanced education. We're talking about actually taking part in Christian worship during the school day. Asking non- Christian children to pray, for example.

OP posts:
minko · 08/09/2009 17:57

Oops, sorry UQD, not used to having men on here! You're 'a man after my own heart' then. Now I sound like I'm flirting...

gorionine · 08/09/2009 18:02

WRT same values shared by main religions, I do agree but, as a muslim, I find it very difficult to expalain to my DCs that we do not belive that Jesus (who is a very important prophet for us) was not born in a stable nor died on a cross when they talk about it a lot in school when easter and chrismas are coming. It would probably be easier if ther was less in common IYSWIM?

Overmydeadbody · 08/09/2009 18:03

No I am not.

There is no place for religion in children's lives.

EleanoraBuntingCupcake · 08/09/2009 18:04

i think it is bullshit and our childrens time could be better spent learning something other than a bunch of msyogonistic patriachial fairy tales.

eg if my school had spent less time banging on about god my spelling might better!

Takver · 08/09/2009 18:11

I am in favour of religious education - as in teaching children about different religions - because it is so important in many peoples lives, and so significant in world politics. But I don't support the current situation where schools are by default Christian and children are expected unless withdrawn to worship as Christians.
Yes, we can withdraw our children, but not without 'labelling' them as unbelievers. I would like my child to have the opportunity to make up her own mind and decide whether to worship or not when she has come to a decision.
The only benefit I see of the situation described by lljkk is that it does at least provoke a discussion of religion, which is otherwise so irrelevant to our lives as lived that it probably otherwise wouldn't happen. But good religious education covering all the major world religions would hopefully have the same effect.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 08/09/2009 18:21

I like hymns and singing is good for kids.
Quite liked assemblies when I was little

throckenholt · 08/09/2009 18:43

it is the christian concept that all morals are their ideals - and the implication that if you aren't christian then somehow you don't adhere to those ideals that really bugs me.

And the evangelism - that they are right and everyone should think like them.

Church schools that claim to welcome everyone and celebrate the individual patently don't do that when they have school prayer time, and push the christian stories. I would far prefer they live by their values and model those values without pushing their particular beliefs as to how those values should be taught and justified.

I am guessing similar techniques permeate all faith schools. Basically it is the evangelism that bugs me.

I personally enjoyed the hymns and wish my kids learnt the traditional songs - which maybe a bit odd - but they are part of my countries past just as church buildings are - I just don't happen to believe the stories associated with them !

MummyDoIt · 08/09/2009 18:47

I am very opposed to religion in schools. It should be taught at home or at an appropriate place of worship if the parents want it. I'm atheist and I hate the fact that my children are being indoctrinated against my wishes. I was appalled the day DS1 came home and asked me if I was a friend of Jesus.

JHKE · 08/09/2009 19:01

Against religion in state schools here.

weegiemum · 08/09/2009 19:05

I'm a Christian (in a pretty serious way)

And totally against religion in schools.

Partly for all the reasons many others have said.

And partly when it is done, it is done very very badly!!!

jemart · 08/09/2009 20:17

Evangelism throckenholt? Have you ever been to a primary school assembly? it is the most wishy washy form of protestantism going. Some nice hymns, the lords prayer and thats about it.
We also sometimes had various other religious traditions represented in our assemblies(part of the RE program I think)

MarshaBrady · 08/09/2009 20:53

I already think that learning about religions in reception is upping the emphasis too much.

Reading, writing, maths - and religion. I would prefer it if they did comparative RE later.

There is no way I would want ds to learn to pray at school.

SolidGoldBrass · 08/09/2009 22:04

What pisses me off is that school children are supposed to take part in worship even in non-religious schools. And I will be keeping an eye on DS' new school, which mentions in its introductory brochure that they want to 'introduce children to the concept of a caring god', despite being a non-church school.
It's not as if you can't peddle superstitious bullshit to your children on your own time, why should it be forcefed to children growing up in rational households, in their school time?

mathanxiety · 09/09/2009 04:42

Happy to have had a real choice in the US .

ApplesinmyPocket · 09/09/2009 07:15

Absolutely, emphatically, not in favour of religion in state schools.

No problem with people passing on their superstitions to their children in their homes, if they realy must. But never should any belief in the supernatural be given any official recognition, whether this be school hymns encouraging group worshipping of an invisible imaginary being (pick any one) or religious representatives given special reserved places in parliament making our laws, which particularly riles me.

Religious people often say 'but our religion isn't affecting you, leave us be' - well it jolly well is so long as there are blooming Bishops in the House of Lords.

throckenholt · 09/09/2009 07:39

Have you ever been to a primary school assembly?

yes I have

Yes - much of it is wishy wash - but there is still the God loves you and wants you to be kind to each other. God watches over you and helps you to do the right thing etc etc etc. The group prayer.

It is usually only a few minutes in any given assembly - but in my experience it is in each assembly and it makes me squirm with annoyance every time !

It is also my kids coming home telling the "truth" about Jesus and Christian ways of doing things.

And this is in a church school that isn't even particularly overtly churchy - lots are much more so.

I am sure lots of community schools are less like this - but hundreds of primary schools in particular are still church schools - particularly in the countryside - more by an accident of history than because of any faith base in the community.

SolidGoldBrass · 09/09/2009 10:04

The only argument I can think of in favour of keeping the 'state' religion is that it is possible that the generally well-meaning woooly Anglicanism serves as a kind of inoculation against the more toxic stuff that carries its huge bundles of homophobia, sexism and racism with it.
But I would rather see superstition of all kinds booted to its rightful place - a silly but harmless and indeed comforting hobby for most believers - and only attacked when the superstitous start overstepping the mark by demanding special treatment which infringes other people's rights.

gorionine · 09/09/2009 11:19

Solidgold, WRT your one before last post, you can opt out. I did, and so did one of my friend, it has never been a problem with the school. Usually at the start of the term, I spend 10 minuts with the teacher who runs me throug the RE program and see what is ok for my dcs to go to. (anything about moral, friendship, good behaviour, religious buildings and religious festivals they go to, anything to much into fondamentals of religion like Jesus son of God..., collective worship or religious assembly with hymn they do not go).

gorionine · 09/09/2009 11:20

Sorry posted to soon, my friend's DCs do not take part at all in RE and are not treated any differently either.

TheDMshouldbeRivened · 09/09/2009 11:24

could always home educate to avoid 'superstition' etc

GrimmaTheNome · 09/09/2009 11:29

could always home educate to avoid 'superstition' etc

But given the small number of active churchgoers, it would make a lot more sense for those who see the need prayers during school time to be the ones who have to home ed. As happens a fair bit in the US, even though there there are more religious folk.

GrimmaTheNome · 09/09/2009 11:35

Still not finding many cogent arguments supporting worship in schools, Seeker. Well there's a suprise.

My DH announced this morning he was thinking of voting Green having just read this

At last one of the political parties, albeit not exactly one that's ever likely to get its policies enacted, addressing this issue!

thedolly · 09/09/2009 11:56

The UK is made up of 'Christian' countries is it not? That is why we should have Christian worship in schools.

If we were a Muslim country we would have an 'active' focus on Islam in schools.

GooseyLoosey · 09/09/2009 11:59

I would dispute the fact that the UK is a "christian" country. Historically, yes, but now it should be classed as a "secular democracy". Therefore no religious worship in schools. Would free up time for more useful activies. Would also only reach religious in a social and cultural context rather than in isoltation.

thedolly · 09/09/2009 12:03

With about 70% of the population professing to be 'Christian' I'd say that makes us a Christian country.