Why is that so many people in England feel they can't sing?

[ZZZenAgain]

It's true though, wouldn't you say? I've noticed that in a lot of other countries I've lived in people generally seem able to read music fluently and are able to sing confidently and in tune. Or if they cannot read music, they seem able and happy enough to sing something by ear. Often when you are at parties or spend an evening with people, they'll strike up songs and I don't mean drunken yowling.

I'm also not referring to specifically musically trained people but just generally it seems to be a way of life that goes through all classes/professions. I really noticed this in Denmark for instance or Russia, where everyone seems able to sing something well and do it confidently and looking as if they enjoy it.

So why is it not like that in the UK I wonder? Is it a skill that's gone lost over the years?

perhaps, like me, some of them are tone deaf!

"Especially as I heard that having a good ear for music also means that you tend to be better at foreign languages My kids are all musical - but also bilingual." Interesting quote weegiemum, my DD trained in musical theatre but before she went she also had a backup place at St Andrews to study languages. I also think being able to sing is something you are born with. I only realised my DD could sing because she was the only one at playgroup who could sing in tune. It became apparent because when she sung you could tell what she was singing. She then had what I described as two different voices. One that she used when singing in class with her friends and another that she used when she sung a song that she really new well. At five you could hear the vibrato sp in her voice. I also think that there was some deep thinking, ie how to use her voice to portray emotion from a very early age.

I can't respond to some of your postings because unfortunately they go over my head! Also illustrates my point that we could be taught to sing better and have some idea what it involves...

Iljk well done for perservering, you too amicissima. I am feeling inspired to try some vocal lessons now actually. I have been googling a bit to see what it involves. Still feel a bit intimidated by it. It's true I think making a fool of yourself is probably the biggest worry for us adults when it comes to singing - and a feeling we may have missed the boat and left it too late to salvage anything.

I sing at church because after all the music pretty much drowns you out, doesn't it? Can't sing along to the organ though, it totally confuses my ear for some reason. I can't see myself ever getting into solo singing tbh. I Don't think I would be giving the world a lot of pleasure with it. It's funny some people writing they like to place themselves near someone who sings well and follow them. I think I prefer to be near uncertain singers because I don't worry so much they're thinking: "OMG what is this woman on and what the hell is she doing to her voice?" IYSWIM.

hmm I'm confused now deste. We can almost all potentially sing or you're born with it? Maybe we could almost all manage to sing more or less in tune and recognise pitch etc given instruction but some people get there without any help, is that it then?

Having recently suffered Karaoke at a European holiday resort, I wish there were more Dutch, Germans and French who don't have the confidence to sing

@ soups

Zen, in response to your question to deste - my opinion is that everyone call learn to sing in tune to a reasonable level. And learning to sing in tune is as much about listening properly as anything else. This is one of the fundamental principles behind Kodaly/Orff methods of musical tuition.

However there are those fortunate few (for instance deste's DD) who possess both a natural ear for pitch, together with the right shaped vocal chords and physiology to produce a sound which is superior to everyone else. at those lucky people.

For example I can sing in tune, but I don't sound and would never sound anything like Kiri Te Kanawa because I don't have the right physical makeup. (However I could no doubt sound better than I do if I had some lessons.)

ZZZenAgain I think you could be right. I knew a family where the mother was a singing teacher and her youngest child who was not a singer did improve dramatically as she got older, same with another friend, another singing teacher whose son dramatically improved over the years. I think that proves that your voice will improve with lessons but at the same time if you know what you are listening to, you can tell if a child has had singing lessons. The natural sound is just not there.

I was told at school that I couldn't sing so i should just mime in school assemblies! And I wasn't the only one by a long way.

I'm wondering now if these were properly trained music teachers who told dc to just mime and not sing. Had they been taught how to teach singing and just couldn't be bothered with it or they could sing themselves but had no idea how to teach it?

I sent my dd initially to choir at school but then outside of school to a choir that definitely does teach them and does it very nicely too. I think it's great. It's also her all-time favourite activity in the week and she says she'd like choir every day (this choir that is). I don't think by comparison our school choir was up to much tbh. I did want my dd to know how to sing though. I don't think she is one of those naturally gifted people like deste's dd is and I don't mind if she never graces a stage in her life but I would like her to feel she can sing and really know the mechanics of it. She gets so much joy out of it. You should see those bright eyes as the girls pour out after practice all buzzing and smiling and singing along as they run out.

I just think all our primary school dc should have that chance and so they should get it in their regular schools. I know maths and IT and science and languages are all so important and singing is low down the list of school priorities but I think it should have a place and be well tuaght, I really do.

I think a lot of people whe are trained music teachers teach singing although as you say are not really trained in voice. They do sing themselves but not West End standard. For those of you have DC's at junior school, who takes choir practice if they have no dedicated singing teachers in the school. The same with drama, who takes it and when does it happen?

I suppose I tend to assume that all music teachers can sing and also teach singing based on their own experience of having learnt it IYSWIM and wouldn't have stopped to think teaching singing is a seperate skill in itself which not all music teachers would feel up to.

Interesting answers, thanks everyone.