Can a school give their nursery children priority for reception places?

[Doozle]

DD is 3 years old and we'll be applying for a reception place to start in Sept 2010.

We have just missed out on a nursery place for her at our closest school.

A little boy who lives further away from us got a nursery place because he was born 2 weeks earlier and applied in a different term and that term wasn't so heavily subscribed.

I'm told now that this boy will get a reception place over DD because he currently attends nursery. The council admissions have confirmed this.

All a bit complicated but is this allowed? I thought schools weren't allowed to count nursery attendance when doing the reception places but maybe I'm wrong? The council say the school is voluntary aided and set their own admissions criteria so ultimately up to them. Does anyone know about this?

Also just spotted

4.14 Once admissions arrangements have been
determined, parents have the right to refer an objection to the Schools Adjudicator if they consider that they do not comply with the law or the mandatory requirements of this Code.

so that could be another route for you.

The code suggests involving your MP, which sounds like a great idea

So herein lies the dilemma, do I go down this route ...or hang fire and hope she gets the nursery place? I mean if she's no.1 on the list, she's got a pretty good chance, right?

I may not find out til Sept if she has the place but that's when we start applying for reception places too.

I'm assuming its a private nursery attached to the school? - but the school & nursery work closely together? (they are all like that round where I live, so that's my bias)

Not saying they will, but they could do what they like with the waiting list for nursery in that case & there is not a lot you could do about it...

It's just easier to let someone else point out the error of their ways

and yes it is exactly like making a legal case... I helped a friend with her appeal last year (which is why I know my way around the admission code ) & we managed to show that the decision made wasn't something that a reasonable person would have made given all the facts, we won by the way , but mega stressful

crossed posts

how much movement is there normally at nursery?

Again where I live it's a fairly static population, you have to get DC down at least 2yrs before they are due to start nursery to get any sessions at all, and it seems to get earlier every year... (I put DS down 2wks after he was born to make sure I got the sessions I wanted)

For the past 3 years no one on the waiting list has got in, any sessions becoming spare have been grabbed by parents of kids already at nursery who were getting less than 5 sessions.

If you live in a more mobile area then you stand a better chance.

Actually, it's a state nursery attached to the school so they should abide by the criteria, again 50% open places, 50% church places. All the schools in the borough have a state nursery attached.

Maybe I'll see by last week of Aug where we are with this.

That's great you won the case, think it's good when people challenge the system on their own.

admissions code doesn't apply to nursery though...

2.66 Where schools have a nursery class attached, separate admission arrangements must be published for entry to the nursery. The provisions of this Code do not apply to nursery classes.

Yes but the school has a published nursery admissions criteria which is sent out to all parents ... and is not dissimilar to its reception criteria. So I guess they have to stick by their published criteria for that.

Children must go 5 mornings or afternoons a week so there's no option to take extra sessions or anything like that. We live in a fairly mobile area so could see some movement. The admissions lady said she often sees movement at top of the list but of course, no guarantees.

I think you should talk to the Head. Not in a 'trouble-making' way but to draw attention to the anomaly. The criteria of giving precedence to nursery children would have been introduced as a way of ensuring continuity for the children. The situation you find yourself in wouldn't have even been thought about. And that does discriminate, albeit in a roundabout way, on grounds of date of birth. Worth a try?

You do need (as has already been said) to check out the school's admission code.
In our LEA, very few schools have nurseries attached but as a matter of policy attendance at the nursery does not give any priority for places in reception, for the sorts of reasons mentioned in the quote earlier from the admissions code.

Speak to the LEA about the apparent anomaly. Does your LEA have a parents' advocate? If so, take their advice on how to challenge the admissions criteria. One way would be to appeal if you don't get a place in reception, but there may be some options before that.

Hi everyone, ok I called the school admissions lady this morning to have casual chat about it.

This is so confusing!

I last spoke to her a while ago and since then she's had this query from a few other parents. She says she's now checked with the governors and if I live closer, I would get the place. So nursery kids would not get priority after all.

I said great news ... but that's not how it comes across in the published criteria. She assured me this is the case and it's difficult to word these things.

Am thinking of sending her an email that sets out what she said - just asking her if I've understand it right - so that I have something in writing. What do you reckon?

The governors should have an admission policy that they review each year.

Ours has priority in this order:
child in public care
statement of SEN that names school
those in catchment
those with sibling on roll
those who attend local playgroup
those wishing a CofE education with none available in their catchment (requires letter confirming regulat church attendance).

I would check what it is for the school you are interested in - the secretary should be able to give it to you.

"4. Proximity of home to school**
In the event of any one of the above categories being oversubscribed, places will be allocated ccording to the following criteria, in order of priority:
a
a. Applicants who will have a sibling in the main school on the date of admission*
b. Applicants who currently attend the nursery
c.. Proximity of home to school**"

so what they are saying is that the oversubscription criteria don't apply to no.4 (your entry criterion) then, it's entirely based on proximity/distance?

Not what the words say & would surely lead to people in cat a) & b) having grounds for appeal?

I think what they're saying is that 4a still stands but 4b is now done away with. If I live closer even though my kid is not in the nursery, I get in ... over and above someone who is in the nursery but lives a few doors further away.

That's the thing Betsy, the current published criteria contradict what she's said over the phone.

Doozle - she couldn't have meant that they've changed the criteria for admission in 2010 (which may not have been formally published yet) & you may be looking at 2009 entry criteria? Just a thought...

What they actually do in practise HAS to match the published criteria or they are leaving themselves wide open for a load of appeals...

Hi Betsy, the criteria I posted is their published 2010 criteria on the council school admissions website.

And yet what she told me on the phone today does not match what they've published.

So I'm thinking of emailing her to clarify what she said on the phone. She assured me verbally that anyone who lives closer but not in nursery will get a place ahead of someone who lives further away but is in the nursery.

If correct, then surely I need to go back to the council guy and say they need to update the published 2010 criteria on the website.

definitely follow it up Doozle, they really need to update their admission criteria to reflect what they actually DO.....

wasn't suggesting you are daft BTW, your LEA is obviously more organised than ours as they have a mixture of 2009 & 2010 criteria on their website ATM, which wasn't immediately obvious when I was looking last week, which is why I mentioned it, just in case

Unless she is quoting the current rules for 2009 intake. Do you know if they match what she is saying?

Thanks again everyone, am definitely going to pursue it, feel on a bit of mission now And don't worry, Betsy, didn't think you were inferring that

Even VA schools are not exempt. There would be a national outcry if parents who worked and therefore could not take up a place at the attatched state nursery were then placed further behind SAHP even if they lived closer.

Attatched state nursery classes run for 2.5 hours each day (some have gone over to 3 but most still 2.5) Children can attend from 9am-11.30am or 12.45-3.15 (some are 1pm-3.30pm) This quite clearly discriminates against working parents. They cannot do this though I'd get something in writing. don't worry about waiting til September to see if she gets a nursery place because even though that's when you start applying for a Reception place, you'll have until at least the end of Nov and it isn't first come, first served.

Attached. I did it twice too.

Myredcardigan, think you make a valid point about it discriminating against working parents for sure.

However, this morning, we were offered a nursery place!! So pleased!! Now my worries have eased.

Guess no need for me to pursue this anymore.
But thanks to all who helped with advice.