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Original poster

Why is it OK to say "I'm rubbish at maths" when...

114 replies

Clary · 01/07/2009 22:50

you would never freely admit to being rubbish at English?

A colleague said this to me today and manyothers have said it before when they ask me to explain how to work out percentages or whatever.

Why is it a badge of pride to say this? I work in an office where people deal with the written word and facts and figures all day. If they couldn't read they would really struggle - but apparently it's OK not to be able to do maths.

If they are really that bad, why don't they do an evening class?

OP posts:
bamboobutton · 02/07/2009 11:12

i really can't my brain just goes 'WTF is this!!!!' and shuts down.

dh has tried to 'cure' me by explaining how it works, but i just zone out.

Original poster
Clary · 02/07/2009 11:23

cheesesarnie that?s fab that you are taking yr GCSE. See that?s what I mean, that?s an option open to people, well done you for taking action rather than just saying ?oh well I?m no good at this vital part of my job but never mind?.

I think it is (or maybe was!) badly taught at school, that may be the reason people are put off. But yes hopefully it?s being better taught, certainly my DC have learned things like money (ie obviously useful applications of it) at an early age.

A pal on being asked how his DC was doing at school said ?OK but he?s struggling with maths. But then he would, DW and I are both rubbish at it.? - talk about self-fulfilling prophesy!

discalculia is a specific thing; it can hardly affect 40% (roughly, I haven?t done the maths ) of my colleagues can it? Not disputing it exists of course.

OP posts:
2kidzandi · 02/07/2009 11:24

MrsMattie I am feeling everything you're saying!

ingles2 · 02/07/2009 11:26

have you tried going right back to basics bamboo?
Do you have children? How old are they?
with ds2 I try and incorporate maths into all our games. There are some fantastic board games you play, and we play shopping games and fraction games.
I think you probably do have dyscaluclia but also a problem with confidence around maths... so if you go back, you can build up your confidence to keep moving forward with your children.

choppychopster · 02/07/2009 11:29

My mental arithmatic is really poor, so I often end up saying things like "I'm rubbish at maths" when in fact I actually use maths an awful lot in my marketing work for analysis, planning, budgeting and forecasting. I probably spend more time on the stats side of things than anything creative (and am certainly seen as the statto by my collegues), but can't shake of the feeling from primary school of being thick cos I couldn't do my times tables. Give me a calculator and I'm fine though!

throckenholt · 02/07/2009 11:29

I find this dyscalculia interesting.

I have taught maths to science degree students in the first year - and it was frightening how bad their basic maths often was (didn't they need maths in A level science any more ?!). BUT it was amazing how often you could turn them around - and it was often just using a different form of words. I lost count of the time people said "why didn't they just say that in the first place ?!". Once you can get past that it is just confidence building. And the look of delight on someone's face when they can do something they always thought was difficult and beyond them is wonderful.

Back to the dyscalculia - my 7 year old has a numerate brain - the way he tackles things in life is numerate - but he is really struggling with some bits of maths at school. Some bits he sees (eg rotating shapes - he can do easily), but actually manipulating numbers sometimes floors him. I have been working with him a lot at home. Once he has learnt something it is "easy" - but take him one step beyond and he is baffled which shows he didn't understand the step before - he just learnt the answer. You can almost see his braining just going blank. And then sometimes something clicks into place and the flash of understanding happens. It is as if his brain just doesn't read it properly to begin with. He thinks he is bad at maths (which is tricky because he idolises DH who is a mathematician and he really wants to please him ). He isn't bad at maths - but he does have this mental block about bits of it. The trick is to get him past the blocks and build his confidence.

As bloss said - you have to build on a good understanding of the basics - one tiny step at a time. If you miss a step in the understanding it is really hard to put it back in later.

OrmIrian · 02/07/2009 11:33

Because not being able to do maths is like not being tidy - a sign that you are spontaneous, creative, a free spirit. Not being able write well shows you are a lumpen nerd who understands rules but without a creative bone in your body.

Surely you knew that!

I suspect it's also a sign of feminity. Probably.

OrmIrian · 02/07/2009 11:34

And I speak as someone with C at CSE maths because i got a U in o-level. I was 'rubbish at maths' until I got out into the real world and realised that maths is a. essential, b. unavoidable, c. fascinating and beautiful.

cat64 · 02/07/2009 11:36

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn

Swedes · 02/07/2009 11:41

I'm good at maths (got an A at O level) but had absolutely no desire to take it any further than that. My maths teacher tried to persuade me to not go ahead with A level Art (as it would do me no good whatsoever) but instead do A level and possibly S level Maths. Of course I took no notice whatsoever. And he was right.

singersgirl · 02/07/2009 11:56

For getting children interested in the fascinating and beautiful side of maths, we found "The Number Devil" by Hans Somebody-or-other very good. Someone else also recommended "Penrose the Mathematical Cat", which I've had a look at and is more practical.

I'm not a natural mathematician and not particularly quick at mental arithmetic - good enough for an A at O-Level, but not a real maths person. And neither are my children. We're not a 'Maths for fun' household.

OrmIrian · 02/07/2009 11:58

swedes - DS#1 is like you. All his teachers from about yr3 have said he is a natural mathematician but he isn't interested and easily discouraged and only gets moderate marks most of the time. It drives me mad!

BeatrixRotter · 02/07/2009 12:30

That discalculia thing is so interestng. I struggled so much with maths and finally got a grade c on the third attempt. I can blame some of it on the teaching, 30 kids in a class with a teacher who was constantly racing us through the curriculum. There was never time to explain things more than once, I got further and further behind and accepted it was a lost cause. By the end of the first year I had grasped trig which was the first thing we had learnt. None of it would stay in my head, although I was very good in all my other subjects (except physics - too much like maths).

I think lots of people admit to being rubbish at spelling, but maybe that is just my friends.

I think it is shocking if kids diagnosed with discalculia are not helped at school.My dad was an undiagnosed dyslexic 50 years ago and was labelled thick by his teachers. He still has zero confidence now when it comes to writing

ABetaDad · 02/07/2009 14:12

edam - no you and me are not thick we are just special people

cheesesarnie - well done to you for giving it a go. Good luck with the exams.

slug - very interesting your choice of phrase "having to re-teach myself maths in order to teach". I did feel I had to do that. Strip everything right back and start again from first principles. Having done that I could then see why I didn't 'get' maths the first time round. Just like you, once I had understood myself, then teaching others who also didn't 'get' maths was a lot easier.

Teaching business people by usng examples from their own experience made it a lot easier, less theoretical and more practical and relevant.

Slubberdegullion · 02/07/2009 14:31

I got an A at GCSE maths and passed A-level physics but if you asked me to add 3 + 12 + 7 I couldn't do it. Well I could, but I'd have to use my fingers and have my head at an angle with my tongue sticking out a bit.

I can't see patterns of numbers at all. I actively avoid situations where I need to do sums (like divvying up a bill after a meal out) because I know I look like such a plonker.

I'm hoping that getting involved with maths homework might teach me new ways of thinking about numbers.

I'm pretty ashamed to be so crap.
I also have spelling and apostrophe issues...I wonder if the two are connected
[hopeful]

edam · 02/07/2009 16:10

Abetadad - hmmmmmmmmmmm!

Actually have remembered a B was the best I could achieve as as I was put in for joint O-level and CSE maths (moved schools and was plonked in the same set as the girl who was told to show me around).

Acinonyx · 02/07/2009 16:19

I agree with Trillion and OrmIrian - it's cool to be crap at maths apparently. I also agree that it is sometimes seen as a badge of femininity - I hear far more women than men happily chortle on about there poor maths skills.

I am very good at maths - unusually good at certain kinds of maths (just talke my word for it . And maths can be very creative if you can manipulate numbers easily.

I have been occaisionally irritated with assumptions that because I am good at maths/science I probably have little appreciation of the arts/literature.

I do agree that you have to be careful about this kind of thing once you have kids. I've stopped annoucing how crap I am at all kinds of sport since dd came along.

Acinonyx · 02/07/2009 16:20

Ah - clearly illiterate - spot the 'deliberate' spelling error...............

edam · 02/07/2009 16:25

there/their

dorothygale · 02/07/2009 16:25

I agree with the OP. There is a inverse snobbery about it - as if not being able to do maths marks you out as being creative and cool- only saddoes do maths

I don't think it is just dyscalculia - people exagerate how poor they are at maths for effect as well. I do think it is or rather was taught really badly- which made it more complicated/frightening than it is.

That said I've got a maths degree so what do I know

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 16:35

Oh see, I'm not so sure that it's cool to be crap at maths. Unless you're about 13 and think being crap at things is cool.

I really struggled with maths for years. I was an A grade A level student, and still taking my maths o'level. I knew I was bright, but in the four times I took my maths o'level I never passed it.

I don't think ignorance is OK, I didn't then either.

But I also don't for the life of me know why I don't understand it. I actually think I'm quite clever, but I don't understand why I can't apply that to maths.

Having children helped me go back over the basics. Something bad happens, I can't remember the process, I don't really understand the process then suddenly all you've got is one random number and a car travelling at 70 mph and then its confused with the time, and the miles and you actually have NO IDEA what you're doing and that car will never arrive anywhere at any speed because all the numbers are swirling about, and now you can't remember the original sum anyway.

I need Bloss.

Not proud at all. Rather ashamed really.

bloss · 02/07/2009 16:45

Message withdrawn

ahundredtimes · 02/07/2009 16:54

OMG that would be so exciting! I'm almost tempted.

But I have had many teachers, and I have tried over the years. Half the problem I think is that I have to convert everything into language in order to understand it, then I get confused having done that, and can't remember what I'm meant to be doing.

It's difficult to explain without sounding like a total moron. It's like it just slips away, whirls off above your head, unmoored and meaningless. Or like pouring water on a stone, it makes a mark but nothing sticks.

I can't remember number sequences either, like my mobile phone number for instance

ds2 was doing converting weights the other night. I TRIED. I got all unstuck with kg and k and stones and lbs and I couldn't remember what was what, or what the process was.

It would be your greatest challenge!

hatwoman · 02/07/2009 17:00

I read an article the other day about how this is a bit of a British thing. apparently in lots of European countries educational policy is based on the belief (like throckenholt's) that everyone can "get" maths upto a certain level. they don't, therefore, stream for maths - ie don't label people as "not very good at maths". net result is more people getting decent qualifications in maths and less people saying stuff about not being able to do maths. I can;t remember where I read it, but will try and find it.

bamboobutton · 02/07/2009 17:05

ingles im sure its dyscalculia, i have to be very careful typing phone numbers in because i jumble the numbers up

eg. i see the number written as 12345 but as i go to type it in it goes 14325.

and writing a number down i have to tell people to go slow and say 3 numbers at a time or it gets jumbled up.

it even happens with my PIN, and thats only 4 numbers!!

i can do basic stuff if i can do it on paper and can have a calculator, doing it in my head is impossible. i would have trouble doing 27+8 in my head and would have to use fingers to count eight up from 27