Do SATs level include any adjustment for age?

[Smithagain]

Just had DD1's end of KS1 report, which includes SATs-style grades for the four main subjects.

Can any teachers clarify whether the assessment system takes any account of age within the year group. For e.g. are there any allowances for the children who are youngest in the year? Or are they expected to have levelled out by now?

actually, to be fair trickerg, I can understand your frustration

I find that quite insulting, as teachers bend over backwords to provide parents with information. My point is that the standardised scores you mentioned have no relevance. It has been agreed by most people that SATs tests at the end of KS1 do not give a complete and fair impression of the child. As the score will be obtained from the result of that test, it therefore cannot be recognised as a valid measure.

All primary education is based on the child's attainment against national curriculum levels. If a 'young' child goes into Y3, that child will be taught according to his or her 'level', not a standardised score.

It is not that I've against giving information to parents. I am against giving information that may be misleading and cannot be used to inform the next stage of teaching. If the child is a level 3C in Y2, all primary teachers will be aware of what it means (i.e. actual objectives met by the child), and how the child should be taught in the next school year.

On the other hand, if the child has a standardised score of 120, it only tells us that the child is working at a level above the national average (which we would have known already (from the level) and would have duly informed the parents).

(I didn;t find your to be fair bit quite insulting!!!)

Well explained, trickerg!

lol

I know what you are saying. but I have one child who seems to not be bothered with those SATs things or making an effort at school and her ability is always assessed by the teachers (and the results of any tests she does seem to bear this out) at a certain level

however, they did some standardised tests where she did really excpetionally well (like well well above what she was predicted to get and even in comparison with the children in her class) so those were the results discussed with us (in line of how we could get her to do anything in school as she was clearly bright but just not bothering , lazy thing!) and they wanted to show us that this was the issue not her lack of ability!

That's fine - but those would be standardised tests, not standardised scored derived from NC tests.

S'clear as mud, innit?

lol feenie

poor trickerg is all insulted by me now

I didn't mean to insult you and I have no idea about tests and scores AT ALL (I am, sadly, one of the parents the teachers don't recognise when it comes to parents evening as I WOH and never get to drop off and pick up!) but know that I found having some idea of a standardised test made a real difference to my understanding of how dd was doing at school rather than just the plain level thing

It's OK, I can take it....... I'm just having a bit of a lie down after all my tirades!!!

I understand where you are coming from, foxinsocks.

Wrong time of year, isn't it, Trickerg? I am frazzled by reports and from baking with 30 Y5s this afternoon, followed by a Literacy and an Assessment report to Governors....busy busy busy!

One last thing Foxinsocks!! I think the standardised test in an individual case (such as yours, where child is 'not bothering'!!) is probably a useful tool to use as evidence of potential.

I don't think it's quite as relevant in a combined inf/jun school, where the Y2 teacher would TALK to the Y3 teacher about this, but it would be particularly useful if the child was moving from an infant school to a junior school, and teachers did not communicate.

I think we've kind of, sort of reached a compromise!!!!

Where did Smithagain go all that time?!!

Still here! And thanks for some useful insights into teachers' perspective on all this.

The standardised scores have no relevence to comparing kids with other kids but they do have areleveence in explaining just where a child fits into the national picturein terms of tests. if a parent wnats to know tha, why shouldn't they? I've already stated quite clearly that the standardised scores only give standardised mark for a particular test on a particular day and that they are not often used any more. I think they are incredibly helpful and if a parent asked me for information I would give them it. Do you want me to know things about your child that are secret from you? I am not talking about whether the SATs grade is reported to parents on the report or not, IT ISNT! I am talking about one of the ways in which children (especially younger children) can be tracked. If a parent asks me what grade their child has got in S their SATs I will tell them. I may then say eg X got a 2c in writing. Parent may then say "That's not in line with National Expectation is it?" I may then say "No, but national expectations are not always the best indicator of how well a child is doing. Lets look at his standardised scores. Oh yes, he's an August birthday and actually, his standardised score is 98. This means he is well in line with expectations for a child of his age. This will even out as he gets older and the gap closes." How can anyone be offended by that?

Why do you need a standardised score to say that??? If a parent pointed out that it wasn't in line with national expectations, I'd say, that he's very young in the year, all children develop at different rates, and that it would provide year 3 teachers with a benchmark to monitor his progress next year. Why do you need a number?

I've never seen standardised scores for writing.

Because not all parents are happy with that. Some want (need) to see it in writing/official etc. i wouldn't give unless asked or it was relevent. I really don't beleive in witholding info from parents in cases such as that. Some parents not at all interested, some very interested. It is really helpful for some parents and not for others. If I have info, surely I should give it if its helpful.

I don't think Smithagain was wanting to compare her child to others, just see how her child fits into the grand scheme of things as a younger birthday. Its really interesting to see how younger children mature and catch up with their peers as they go through school and standardised scores are one way of doing that. NOT the only way!

There are no standarised scores for writing, only for spelling, maths and reading. Tis more difficult with writing I suppose and also, by the time a teacher has marked thirty year two long tasks, short tasks and spellings, put them together and fallen into bed exhausted, a standarised score may not be the next thing they want to do!

Writing bad but quick example

Let's face it what does a one off test result prove about a child?
That on that particular day with that particular set of questions they were able to get x number of correct answers...

I'm glad our DDs school now gives us lots of information. She's in yr 5 and they did CATs last term (useful for knowing whether to put the child in for Grammar school entrance exams) and before half term they did maths and english SATs papers plus an in-house science exam. we got the SAT score, but also the marked papers so we could see in detail if there were any areas our child particularly needed to focus on.

The more information the better!

"I don't think Smithagain was wanting to compare her child to others, just see how her child fits into the grand scheme of things as a younger birthday."

Exactly! Especially when I keep reading about "average expectations for seven year olds" and thinking "but she isn't even seven yet!!!"

I seem to remember from somewhere that under the terms of the Data Protection Act a parent is entitled to request all digitised information held by a school about their child. As test results are invariably kept on a computer somewhere then parents are entitled to formally request them.

"As test results are invariably kept on a computer somewhere.."

Not necessarily. Mine lived on the floor of my cupboard. Evidence complied to arrive at a sound judgement comes from many, many sources and as such is annotated, post-it noted (if that is a verb), and generally scribbled over. Only the summative judgements would definitely end up on a computer.

no

That's why I didn't say always.

But the standardised scores aren't kept on a computer somewhere anyway, because..... we don't have to work them out.

Several of us have made the point that they are, on the whole, unnecessary, for various reasons, all listed throughout the post.