teacher refused my request to be a parent helper - why?!

[tigermoth]

My year 1 son's class are going to a local park for two hours tomorrow. The teacher said parents could attend. We were given only a few days notice, but as my son really wants me to go on a trip, and I promised him I would try, I arranged to have time off from work. Job done, I thought.

I spoke to the teacher in passing this morning. She said she was not sure I could go as lots of parents wanted to attend (huh?). I told her not to worry about me taking up a seat on the coach as I would be driving there in my car.

The teacher put a note in my son's bookbag. I read it this evening. The note says I cannot go due to demand for places. What on earth is that all about!! The children are walking in the park, looking at various plants and animals. Why can only a set number of parents walk along with them? It is a park, for goodness sake!

Please give me a plausible explanation. I am going to query why I have been refused admission tomorrow at 9.00 am, so any replies before then would be really appreciated.

Sounds like she hasn't got children of her own yet Tigermoth

The funny thing is, you would think that a teacher who is finding a child frustrating would jump at a chance to have his parent(s) around, to see how he is with them, pick up other ideas for how to manage him, get another perspective, etc. - that is exactly what my son's school is always doing with me - total opposite of your situation - I get regular heavy hints as to how keen they are for me to be around.

Really wish I could be, too.

Oh dear, she is very inexperienced, isn't she?

(Cut down your hours Mrs Moth! No don't come with us on the school trip because it wouldn't be at all useful for me to see how a parent interacts with a child - they might not do it according to my training manual!) Bless.

i know exactly how you feel tigermoth. i had a similar situation with my dd`s last teacher. she actually accused me of trying to blag a freebie (as if id have nothing better to do) there was no way i was going to allow her to do that to me again so i didnt volunteer on the next trip at all, & guess who came up to me a few days before the trip? nice as pie & asked me if i could help out? because i was so good with all the children & they all liked & trusted me, etc etc, creep, creep? i was very tempted to tell her to stick it, but i didnt.

Too many parents can be a distraction - I have had to turn parents down on trips and it is tricky so I cam sympthise with the teacher. Some parents (not you I am sure) see trups as a chace to cactch up and spend the whole time talking thus distracting the kids from learning. The more parents going the worst the risk of this is.

just thowing this in, but there are several comments here from teachers saying some parents' behaviour on school trips can be difficult or distracting. If this really is a common problem and parents need educating - why don't schools produce some general guidence notes so parents know what is expected of them? I have got my communications officer hat on here as you can see.

Absolutely. How do people know the ropes if they're not told?

Bad communications is a total bugbear of mine. It's so destructive and so unnecessary. Good comms are just so easy and make everyone's life easier and more pleasant. But they're seen as an optional extra, rather than an integral part of an organisation's working, like equal opps or health and safety. Drives me doolally!

Tigermoth, I'm TOTALLY shocked at the teacher asking you if you can cut down your hours! And I bet your son gets a lot more sleep than some of his peers.

Tigermoth, I've been following this without much to say as everything I can think of is already suggested by others (including yourself!). I hope the fact that you couldn't go didn't spoil the trip for your son and that a better relationship is made with his teacher next year.

TBH though, if i were in your position, I'd find it really difficult not to keep digging away at it to get a proper answer, so I think you are doing really well by walking away from this one.

She sounds like a cheeky moo to me tigermoth - er maybe he's bored with her lessons ?

Oh FGS I've just seen this Tigermoth, how ridiculous and how upsetting for you and ds2 both. I hadn't twigged he wasn't settling too well at school, although I do remember you mentioning the clueless rookie, come to think of it.
We had a very mild case of this a while back when ds came home and said that he and his (fab) teacher had decided not to give us the letter asking for parent helpers for a forthcoming trip because it might be hard for me to take the time off . I sent a friendly note in putting her straight about that and I received an invite forthwith to the trip, which was great (I know exactly what fun it is seeing the whole class in action, it was sooo interesting). I really appreciated her doing this and I worked very hard to help out with the entire group.
My guess about your teacher is that she knows you have her sussed (although I know you are far too discreet to say anything). She doesn't want you on a trip and she is too embarrassed to deal with you directly about it.
I'm sorry, but I am really rather about this on your behalf. As others have said, how can she get a better handle on ds2's discomfiture with school if she doesn't get a chance to see how he is with you, and given he is not totally happy, you are a parent she should be making an extra effort to know. And as you and the head have worked such magic with ds1 between you, it's not like couldn't put in a word for you with this teacher.
Hmmm. You are right not to let this one lie.

At our school they try & do a mix of regular parent helpers & those who can only do 'one-offs'. They like to have the regular helpers in as they know most of the kids, and the teachers know who can have the 'difficult' kids without losing them. Whether you have your child in the group varies from class to class (teachers preference). But, I had a yr1 group on a walk to do a traffic survey. 1 boy behaved badly throughout the trip, as he wanted to be in a group with his mom, to the extent of endangering the other kids with his behaviour (pushing them off the pavement to try to get closer to her etc). I also didn't go on any trips with dd2 in the first year, as she wasn't very settled & we (teacher & I) decided it wasn't a good idea. The difference was that we discussed it so I didn't feel like I was being left out of the equation.
BTW we always have lots of parent helpers for the big trips (museum etc) but not many want to do the local walks, that's almost always staffed by the regular helpers.

Have just caught up with this, TM - what a thoroughly horrible experience.
And completely out of order to talk about your hours!
I honestly can't thnk of any helpful solution that hasn't been suggested already - I thin guidelines are an excellent idea, and I think asking the Head (rather than teeecher)if you can go on trips as you think it would help your DS settle, and you feel it would give you a way in to making a positive contribution to the school blah blah might be an idea? Mention your communications expertise and offer to be co-opted onto a working party with govorner to draw up guidelines. Then include 'snotty teachers to remain in school sorting out unpleasant plumbing problems during any pleasent outdoor trip'.

berries, I really agree with your message - if the teacher feels it's not a good idea for me to be on trips with my son, she should talk to me about it, so I don't feel I am being left out of the equation - exactly!

Mind you, I know I might be jumping to the wrong conclusion, as it could just have been a numbers thing. I am sure she is under pressure, and she is very young, so I'll let the 'cut your working hours' comment pass for now.

I won't make more of this until I have volunteered for the next trip this term. If I am refused again for no good reason, I will take this further. I will definitely consider going to the head and asking if (spaces permitting) I can go on the next few class trips to help ds settle and possibly talking about guidelines for parent helpers, too.

Anyway, holding back in RL doesn't mean I can't chewing things over on mumsnet! I do feel annoyed about it. When I turned up in the morning to ask the teacher if I could come on the park trip, several parents said "hello, nice to see you, I'm sure we can fit one more in" it was a bit embarassing to be told within their earshot that I couldn't attend! And I do really get a strong sense that this teacher doesn't want me around. Full stop.

In the evening, when I asked my son about the trip, he said he was in a group with two other boys (one of them special needs) and the special needs helper took them round, not one of the parents. He said it was very boring. I know my son gets bored and distracted at school, so this is a problem, but he is not special needs AFAIK (and I have asked). If I had been there, looking after my son, at least the special needs boy would have had more attention from his helper.

There is another reason I want to give ds more attention at school - my oldest son has had lots of attention this year. He is doing really well at school, the teachers are very pleased with his progress, he passed the 11+, he passed his grade 1 music exam with a high mark, he won a writing competition with a local paper, he took a leading part in the school play and was again praised for this. He has had coaching for his exams, me giving him lots of one to one attention for his exam preparation, and well, ds 2 is just an attention grabbing sort of boy He is also 5 years older than ds2. I think my younger son just feels it's not worth competing with him, so keeps a low profile at school. I just think I need to boost ds2 a bit, make him feel his school life is just as important to me and to his teacher. I think this is what I will tell the head if I decide to see him.

Hang on in there, TM, and let us know what happens.

well I hung in there and this is what happened. The next school trip happend this week. Again it was to a local park. I got the teacher's note a week before the trip - longer notice but still not really enough. The school wanted parents with cars to ferry the children to and from the park as they could not book a coach. I offered to do this. The head phoned me two days before saying I could come along but they had enough volunteers to give lifts in the cars. So I did get to spend the day with the class. I had a group of three little boys including my delighted son They kept me busy and all passed smoothly. I deliberately didn't try to make much conversation with the teacher, could see she was busy anyway. She too with me, but she smiled a lot in my direction. I am so glad I went as it's helped me to get to know ds's classsmates and give me an idea of how he related to them. I have made a mental note to try to go on one trip a term.

I also intend to talk to the head about general school trip policy. Also to emphasis that both working parents and busy SAHMs need more than a week's notice.

The mother who gave our group a lift in her car had been told she could ferry us there and back, but was not needed during the day!!! She naturally felt a miffed when she was told this news. I told her my experiences and we both wondered why such a strict limit is placed on parent helpers.

Erm huge alarm bells are ringing over this! Its just that we are told that we are not insured to carry children anywhere, except in a medical emergency like taking them to the hospital.

I would not have thought that this was good practice.

I think its ok if the parents sign a form agreeing that their child can be transported by private car?

I agree Julief, at my school we have designated members of staff who transport kids as the school subsidise their car insurance. It needs to be business insurance to transport kids.

What about car seats and the like?, or am I just being OTT there?, the whole thing sounds crackers to me though.

cam - it might be good practise to get written ok from parents but the insurance liabilities still lie with each parent and their individual car insurance policy - not all cover it. When I was a teacher on a rare few occasions that I had to take a small group of children somewhere (usually 6th formers) and not enough for the minibus/coach I had to ring up my car insurance company and inform them of times, dates, journey, specifics about number of passengers etc. in order to be covered - as well as usual medical info and parental consent. If we travelled via cars, each driver would have to take the medical forms for those children in the car as well!

Glad you went on the trip tigermoth - sounds like you all had a good time. Hope you can do it again in the near future

My school is an independent one, does this make a difference?

Why is it different to transport children to a school activity than to take other people's children home for tea or to an extra-curricular activity? Why does the purpose of the trip affect your insurance?

I have transported children on school trips before and insurance has never been mentioned other than the school ensuring that each car was covered generally.