Primary School Appeal - Infant Class Size & SEN

[maduser]

My eldest son is 6 and in YR1, and has Autism + a statement of SEN (25 hrs per weeks Learning Support Assistant 1 2 1).

His brother (4) has just been refused a place at the same school as we are just outside of catchment.

We are appealing - and would like to talk to anyone who can offer us advice about the Appeal - as we can only appeal on the grounds that (a) they didn't apply their published admission criteria [they did] (b) they didn't adhere to the Admissions Code "mandatory" provisions [we think we found one they didn't] and (c) LA acted "unreasonably" in relation to our family and SEN etc.

Did you win your appeal?
Have you been in this situation?

I have spent 4 weeks researching and reading all the literature and would appreciate any input anyone may have!

Many thanks in anticipation
Anxious Mum.

Hi. We have just won an appeal for our 4 yr old ds. I can thoroughly recommend reading a book called "How to win your school appeal" by Ben Rooney. We certainly had less grounds for appeal than you and we still won! I have another child at the school, and our family circumstances are difficult - it would be impossible to transport 2 children to 2 different primary schools. The appeal process is exhausting and nerve-wracking, but hopefully worth it in the end! I am happy to answer any other questions you have if I can!

Thanks for this - I have that book and it has been a great source of help to us.

Which LEA are you in - and what were your grounds for appeal? Hope you dont mind me asking.

could you argue that it would be unsettling for ds1 if his brother was excluded? that he would benefit from the fact that his brother was attending the same school? and that the additional drop-off pick up confusion would hinder the good start he has made/ be too difficult for the family on top of his existing sn - that he needs the time in the morning to settle and adapt to the school day, not leg it around the countryside to get his brother somewhere else? so make your appeal about ds1 rather than ds2?
it's a little underhand, but we used that rationale in reverse iyswim, to get dd2 into the same school as dd1 and ds1 - we were also out of catchment.

Yes - that is what we plan to argue - We find it absolutely incredible that an LEA that is alredy spending significant funds on our first child to make such an "unreasonable" decision about the second child.

Can you help with the abbreviations - I don't understand DD1 etc - obviously a bit of a rookie on here! LOL

dd1 - darling daughter 1 lol
ds - darling son etc etc.
i only use dd1 as i've got 2 dds and a ds...

so if yours are both boys, you have ds1 (6) and ds2 (4) plus any others lurking in the wings... there's a glossary somewhere on the site that explains all the acronyms lol... makes it a little bit more anonymous and quicker to type without trying to remember what all their names are...

hope it goes well. (but tell them they'll have to provide transport for ds1 if they don't give ds2 a place - as you can't be in two places at once.... not that you actually want that, but it might be another point in your favour....)

Ah now I see! I'll try and find that glossary!

The transport is a good point - DS1 used to get it when he was at "special school" for three terms.

Really appreciate your support.

Very nervous about the appeal but think we have more chance than others.

will your paed back you up? better to get it in writing from a 'professional' lol. friendly ed psych? ours are all fab - i'd be ringing her and saying 'i'm really worried how this is going to affect ds1, and he's been doing soooo well...'

Yes we did an appn on social grounds - they refused it - we submitted 8 letters of evidence and support from health professionals and they only called the ed psych - not the paed. The ed psych was supportive and said that "whilst it's not the only school ds2 can attend, it would be v detrim to ds1".

LEA position is that even if they had approved the social app he still wouldn't have got a place - but they rank social and medical so low that it's pointless to try and use it - i guess so many people try it...

In our case tho, it should have been a "no brainer"... Other cc's put "special circumstances" at the top of their admission oversub criteria after SEN and Cared For...

We have a battle on our hands I think.

How did you feel when you won? Will they have to put another teacher in for your child?

my dd2 started last year but is statemented with 1-1, so tbh she was a no-brainer... but we're moving this summer lol, so i'm working through my nervous breakdown as we speak... this time the school is so small and literally the only one for miles, and by a miracle is a through elementary/ middle, so all three children can go to the same one for the first time ever. this year is the first year we've got down to two schools in two towns (and counties lol), before that it was always 3 drop-offs. i think i'm ecstatic, but the lack of any other alternative means i can't do anything except cross my fingers. they aren't upholding her statement, but claim to have got some funding for 1-1 to tide us over when we arrive, so they can do their own assessments in situ... tbh i'm holding my breath, we've already had to jump through so many hoops to move that if it doesn't work we're well and truly stuffed. ah well. there's nothing for me to do now but get up to date reports written and get everyone to do their referral letters for the new team... gulp.

really hope it goes well for you. good luck.

Woah - so me an u are in the same boat - we move house hopefully on the 25th June - so bet that clashes with the Appeal hearing date!

I think that parents of children with disabilities have to work so hard to ensure their children get the right care support and education - there are systems but they seem to make life harder, not easier! I wonder how, when it happens to parents that are perhaps not so able to understand these Administrative systems, what happens to the child. I will most certainly be taking all this further with the Ombudsman, the Schools Adjudicator and the Local MP after the appeal as at the least I would like to feel I have changed something for the good of others that come after us. It's appalling. I wonder what David Cameron would have to say about it all, he knows the system you would have thought.

You could talk to IPSEA who could help you to ensure that the Statement is upheld and implemented at the new school. They champion parents voice in the Statutory Assessment world.

Thanks again for your support.

small technical hitch with upholding the statement lol - we're moving to canada for two years...
yet another system to work out just when i'd got my head round this one...
sooooooo, we'll move back in two years with no statement as well, and have to find schools for three inc dd2.
but we'll cross that briedge when we come to it...
i need a lie down. and a biscuit.

briedge? clearly the stress is affecting my typing as well

Wow! I love Canada - worked out there for 16 weeks - which part are you going to? I was in London, Ontario. People are great. What an experience! Pour yourself a glass of something and eat some chocolate.... :-)

so siblings outside of catchment are not on the admissions criteria at all?

And it def says siblings within catchment on their admissions criteria?

southern alberta, sunniest place in canada lol. 3 hours to the rockies when it snows.
ds1 was born there, and dd2 was 'cooked' there, although she was my first nhs baby (nuff said) so we know the area really well. never had any kids in school there though, or needed to get into the sn system, so it's going to be a whole new ball game...
bit early for a glass of something this morning lol, so better stick to the camomile tea....

CarGirl - the school was filled by 19 sibs in catchment and 11 catchment kids. 14 catchment kids didn't get offered a place, and that means they never got to the out of catchment siblings bit of their criteria. !!!!!!

yeah strong coffee here madwonainthattic.

slightly envious of the canada thing... :-)

Are you positive about the order of the admissions criteria? Siblings does usually go above any catchment area criteria but it is up to the individual school which order they put things in. From the schools point of view, they have to refuse any children over 30 in infant classes following their admissions criteria, they have no choice. My head teacher hates doing it but always goes to the appeal hearing and the children have alwasy got in on appeal. If the class size goes above 30 then as far as I know they have to accept the child if they have places in other classes in ther school, eg. if they only have 26 children in y5 and every other class has 30 then they have 4 spaces in the school, even though they are actually in y5. also if the class size goes above 30 in the infants then they have a year to sort the situation out and can actually go above 30 for a year. Hope that helps, am sure I am right about what I have said but please check it out further if it will help you, Jess

not here jess, catchment always above siblings (unless in-catchment siblings lol)

we did fortunately trump the catchment card with a statement naming the school, but the school was named on social grounds lol (ie siblings and familiarity, and the importance of routine and expectation etc to sn child)
a bit 'rock, paper, scissors' lol.

maduser, you won't be envious when i post my woes about the new system in september....

Maduser - what borough are you in?

Just found out that my DS2 who is autistic not do not have a statement has not been offered a reception place at the any of the two schools which I really want him to attend. Prior to the application, I have visited the nearby schools and met their SENCOs to see what helps they can offer Autistic children and it was based on the info that I ranked these two at the top of my preferences. I also also ticked the "medical" box in the application in include a supporting information pack which contains a supporting letter from the Nursey's SENCO, the EP's report and my finding.

The local authority respond was that they have considered my info and in their opinion any schools will be able to provide my DS2's SEN needs, and therefore he has not been given any priority in the consideration.

I am considering an appeal as I thought Autism being a mental disorder, is a medical condition. I also like to understand what process the authority uses to arrive at the fact that any school will be able to provide his SEN's needs as autism has such a wide spectrum. I would really appreciate advice from parents has went through similar problem with school placement problem and help they have created a sucessful appeal case.
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TLSP you would be better off starting a new thread to ask your question. This is a really old thread and some people will click on it, see that is is three years old and not bother reading to the end. Sorry, I can't offer any useful advice on your situation but there are many knowledgeable posters who can if they see your post.

Agree with annh that you really ought to start your own thread. However, didn't want to leave you with no feedback.

If one of the schools to which you applied had a special autism unit you would have had a strong case. Without that the general assumption is that any school can cope with any SEN child so autism won't get your child into your choice of school.

You can appeal against the LA's decision. The issue you will face is that autism on its own doesn't necessarily give priority for any school. Even if it has an admissions category for children with special medical needs you will have to show that this is the only school for your child and that the allocated school could not cope. Indeed, if it is an infant class size case you will have to show that the LA's refusal to give priority was so unreasonable that no rational person would make that decision.

If your son had a statement of SEN it would be different. You would then be able to choose your preferred school and the LA would have to have very good reasons to say no. As your son does not have a statement I'm afraid you may find that there is nothing you can do. You should appeal as you may get a sympathetic panel who will choose to admit, but you should be realistic about your chances of success.

Thanks annh and prh47bridge. I will copy and paste to a new thread. The main reasons why I have put these two at the top were that they seem to a lot of experience with Autistic children (one has 13 on the roll), good relationships with their assigned speech and Language therapists as well having and practicing interventions to help these children.