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Original poster

What kind of marks do you need to pass the 11+

103 replies

gigglinggoblin · 23/05/2009 11:44

I know it probably varies year to year but is there a rough percentage they must get to pass? Am trying to get ds interested and he would feel better if he knew he was doing well but all google comes up with is a load of companies trying to sell practice papers

OP posts:
MrsBartlet · 23/05/2009 19:45

Quattrocento - most of the independent schools here tutor for the 11+. They advertise on the basis of how many children they get into the grammar schools! I think as the grammar system is different in different counties it is impossible to generalise. There are so few grammar school places in this area that the competition is fierce and lots of bright children don't get grammar places.

ShellingPeas · 23/05/2009 20:42

It depends where you are and on the school's selection policy.

In my part of Kent there are 3 boys grammar schools, two of whom select purely on results, one on distance from school. Last couple of years I believe the cut off point for scores on the purely results selection criteria were 404 and 407 out of 420, which works out at roughly 96% over the 3 papers.

You have to be seriously bright or very highly tutored. It's all so crap IMO. for my DS who is very bright, but may still not get a place.

margotfonteyn · 23/05/2009 21:52

OK I (or my DCs) have done it three times, from ordinary state primary,

First one, we didn't really know what we are doing, was getting 70%+ on practice papers, we didn't push, didn't want to go over the top etc etc. Got into a grammar school but not the 'top' one (ie super selective). Next two, got the hang of it, practised up to 90%ish on tests. Both got into 'top' GS. All of them equally 'bright', just came down to degree of 'practising'. Didn't have prof tutor, just bought papers from WHSmith and did it myself.

If I was doing it again, I would suggest 90% or above would be the optimum score but it is still all a bit of a lottery for the top GSs, ie lots and lots applying for 120 places, and lots applying from private schools who have been doing VR for ever with the intention of getting a GS place (however hard they may say they don't, but they are just naturally v v clever)

PaulaYatesBiggestFan · 23/05/2009 21:56

i do not know

when mine took it if you pass they dont tell you what you get

competition is fierce and i hope that mine will e getting close to 100% in practice before tests

all private schools tutor round us

we looked round one the other day and they start YOUNG

shocking really

stillenacht · 23/05/2009 22:16

would agree with MrsBartlett about prep schools in this area actively 'going for it' for the 11plus and advertise howmany % get into grammar.

Trust me, some of my pupils have been tutored to within an inch of their life (I would say quite a sizeable proportion).

margotfonteyn · 23/05/2009 22:20

Yes, agree with paulayates, don't get score if you DO get in, but you do get score if you don't (bizarre emoticon).

Have no idea what any of mine scored, but they did all get a GS place.

Quattrocento · 23/05/2009 22:26

So why would a prep school be motivated to tutor for the 11+ then? Are we talking about tiny preps that aren't affiliated or aren't feeder schools for independent senior schools?

stillenacht · 23/05/2009 22:32

yes mostly they are small prep schools with no senior dept - the ones with senior depts don't tutor as they want to keep bums on seats for their secondary.

stillenacht · 23/05/2009 22:32

There are many of these types of school in SE London and Kent.

ingles2 · 23/05/2009 22:33

I was told by the school that ds1 will need to get 85% to get a place at our local GS in Kent.

Voltaire · 23/05/2009 22:41

Academically selective senior Independent schools don't have feeder schools as such. They will take anyone who does well enough in the entrance exams.

My sons weren't tutored because I was very clear I wanted them to go to a school that was comfortably within their capabilities.

I think tutoring a child to gain a place at a state grammar is morally wrong.

MrsBartlet · 23/05/2009 22:41

Yes Quattrocento - the private schools in my town aren't feeding into private senior schools. Both the girls and boys grammar school regularly appear in the top ten state schools in the country and that is what they are aiming for.

MrsBartlet · 23/05/2009 22:42

Why do you think it is morally wrong, Voltaire?

Quattrocento · 23/05/2009 22:45

Academically selective schools frequently DO have feeder schools. They have academic selection at 3 (ho ho - no but they do really).

Voltaire · 23/05/2009 22:48

MrsBartlett -Because it potentially deprives a child whose parents can not afford tutoring of that state provided place.

PaulaYatesBiggestFan · 23/05/2009 22:51

voltaire i feel the minority do not tutor

Voltaire · 23/05/2009 22:55

Quattro - All the schools we looked at (Habs, St Albans, Merchant Taylors, Westminster, City of London) select at 11, 13 and 16 (for sixth form) by entrance exams. In fact I can't think of one school that is properly academically selective that has a feeder prep.

Quattrocento · 23/05/2009 22:55

I'd really like to understand why people feel that tutoring works. Just can't see it myself. Someone explain it to me, please.

There's no knowledge component to these exams. There's a need to familiarise them with the type of question and the format of the exam, but a couple of practice exams would do that for you.

So what's the benefit of tutoring?

Voltaire · 23/05/2009 22:56

PaulaYates - Probably the minority who can't afford it ?

MrsBartlet · 23/05/2009 22:56

Voltaire - I agree with you that the system is inherently unfair but everyone is trying to do the best they can for their children within the system that we live with.

PaulaYatesBiggestFan · 23/05/2009 22:58

quattro

when i opened the nfer paper for the first time dp and i were horrified - both bright well educated..

3 of ours have gone to grammar school without tutoring BUT had they not learned how to do the papers and gone in 'blind' they would have failed

MrsBartlet · 23/05/2009 23:01

The only benefit of tutoring is familiarisation with the techniques. I know of private schools in my town which start doing Verbal Reasoning in Y2 in preparation for the 11+. It is not touched upon in state schools so for us tutoring was to make dd as comfortable with VR as those she would be competing with for places.

MollieO · 23/05/2009 23:04

We border Bucks but ds's prep doesn't tutor for 11+ despite acknowledging that the brighter pupils leave for selective independent or grammar schools. The rest go on to the attached non-selective senior school because local comps are best avoided unfortunately.

Quattrocento · 23/05/2009 23:04

Voltaire - I can assure you that many academically selective schools do have feeder schools. My DCs both go to an academically selective feeder school to an academically selective senior school. I'm reluctant to name their school but there are stacks of these around the country, honestly. The Northern branch of the family have just been through the process in Leeds - and the grammar school there has an academically selective junior school. They test them on the way in.

As for your comment on only the minority who can't afford it not tutoring - there is also of course the minority who do not believe in it ...

PaulaYatesBiggestFan · 23/05/2009 23:10

that's right Quattrocento

I do familiarise them with the tests and have had academic dcs so far but who knows

if dc4 was not that way inclined i would not DREAM of sending him to he dcs school

no way would i tutor him - life at my ds's school for a less than high flying student could i am sure - be hell

it is not that it is 'terribly' hard work - but it is competative VERY competitive

marks out of the class and the year group posted in public corridors etc