How do I get my DD back -yeared?

[Racingsnake]

Hi. I am hoping to find a) someone who has managed this and/or b) any friendly ed pschs who may have ideas.

My DD is currently 2.10 with a mid-July birthday. She was born 8 weeks premature, which means that she has jumped forward a school year. I want her to get her back-yeard so that she is back in the year where she should have been.

She has no obvious SN but is rather behind her friends with July/August birthdays; for example, she is still in nappies when they are all dry, even the boys, she is very clingy and not at all ready to go to nursery, although the others are all happily doing 2 days +. Today for the first time she did a 6 piece puzzle, whereas the others have been doing this for months, She has no real interest in books, while the others all love being read to/looking at books.

I don't feel that there is anything really wrong with her, I just don't want her hurried. I feel that if she got that year back that she has lost she would be happy and confident to start school.

I realise that I could just not send her to reception, but that would mean that she would have to start in a situation where all the other children know each other and know the system and she is trying to break into friendship groups.

I am a primary teacher, so I feel I know the system a bit (and I am not very impressed with much of it, particularly the very early starting age in the UK), but don't know how to acheive what I feel is best for DD.

Any ideas? I know LEA's are very reluctant to do this, but I was wondering if anyone knows what sort of arguments might be effective, what 'buzz' words to use.

I am currently without internet access at home, so can only look in intermittantly until it is repaired, but really hope for some tips.

Oh, and I live in Dorset. I know Lea's are very different.

have you considered home educating her so you can really go at her pace and work with her personal strengths?

Yes, I have. I do think homw educating is great for some, but there is a lot of good in the social side of school. If she really hates school I would definitely do that - have seen too many children who don't get on at school, the teachers get a real down on them becuase they have probelms but don't express it in a suitablely acceptable, easy to deal with way.

In some LEA's head teacher's have discretion in holding a child back a year. In your shoes I would visit the local schools (maybe nearer the time!) and discuss your concerns with the head teacher. However I suspect that you've little chance in an over-subscribed school!

flamingo makes a good point about home educating. Also look at nursery schools (some might let her stay until she turns 6) to give her some socialisation and 'school experience'.

RS - all these things are part of the normal range of things children do or don't at this age - I wouldn't be worrying too much at the moment. Puzzles - as you know, ds is just 4 and clearly quite a bit older than your dd - he can do 49 piece puzzles on his own, and that is quite a bit more advanced than many of his class-mates. When he first went to nursery at the beginning of the year, they had the lift-out puzzle pieces with the knob on - ds had grown out of his a long time ago. However, this wasn't entirely his own talent - it was something that I've worked on with him. Both dh and myself love and are good at puzzles - so I've done puzzles with him from early on - and helped him with the concept behind them so he now 'sees' the puzzle pieces in a similar way that I do ie looking for the appropriate colour etc. Somehow during that, however, the concept of 'side pieces' has passed him by, so he normally does puzzles from the inside out rather than the more typical outside in .

Similarly, some children are really not interested in books to a great extent - I'm lucky in that ds is (which I have encouraged, particularly as he is a boy ifykwim) but I do know of lots of parents whose children are not that interested.

Clingyness - what's age got to do with it? Several of ds's classmates had to be prised from their parents at the beginning of the year - however, all of these have now settled in and are running in more similarly to ds!

From what I have read, only a few local authorities will allow children to be held back a year and stay in that same year. Mostly it means that at some stage they will have to have a jump in their schooling which probably won't do her any favours. So that, if you're allowed not to place her for a year - she would just jump straight to year one which is probably not an advantage.

The social side of HE is really not a problem at all - it's probably the most misunderstood thing about HE, actually! My children have loads of friends they see very regularly, nearly all HE'd but some are schooled.

Maybe it's worth looking into if that's your only objection...?

My son was still in nappies at amost 3 so I wouldn't worry about that.

Do you find yourself looking for things to explain her prematuraty as lots of what you have said come within the normal range.

Why not phone the school(s) and see what their advice is?

You have lots of time for things to change. Ds was 7 weeks prem and spent nearly a month in SCBU. He had developmental delays (didn't walk until he was nearly 2) and health problems and wasn't potty trained until he was 3.5 (day) and 4.7 (night). He started school even though he was 4.2 and I just made sure the teachers were aware of his health issues.

If you are under the care of a paediatrician I would ask them what they recommend. Ds missed a lot of nursery through being ill but it is amazing now, nearly 5, how his health has improved and his development is pretty much on par with his classmates. Just as his paediatrician predicted and not something I would have expected when he was your dd's age.

You are all very kind and reassuring.

You're probably all right about development - obviously, as a primary teacher, I see a vast range of development and abilities in children of the same age. It's just that I want her to have the best chance possible for her. The fact that there will be others in her class at the same of even a younger stage of development doesn't change that.

It's probably also very relevant that I think that no child should have to go to school until they are 6, as they do in the whole of Northern Europe. I probably would not have been wholy comfortable with dd starting at 5; I am very unhappy about her having to start at 4.1. (OK, I realise she doesn't have to start at that age, but there's the whole missing-reception-everyone-eelse-has-friends issue. She takes a very long time to make friends anyway, compared to some of her peers.)

I am probably way off here but I think too much might be put on the reception making friends thing.

My DD had lots of friends in year r and then it changed in year 1. Her class has had children leave and children join and all have made friends and settled.

Thinking about it, you are probably right. Some new children just seem to blend in seamlessly; others don't make friends even when they were there at the beginning.

Some LEAs definitely used to have a policy of allowing prem born kids to be held back to when they should have started if born when due. A friend of mine in London did it with her twins, but that was a few years ago. Worth a phone call to ask.

Good idea, I didn't know that. Thanks.

I'd home educate until 7/8 or so, and then put her straight into Y3/4 (Year 4 is probably better). The thing is that by that age a lot of things even out and the month of birth/premature bit doesn't matter that much. You wouldn't have to start teaching her to read/write at all until age 7 or so (at least I wouldn't), but focus instead on developing fine motor skills (tracing, colouring in, play dough, kids sewing kits, all the Montessori bits), thinking skills (odd one out, shapes, matching, etc), etc. And doing it at her own pace and in her comfort zone - this would be of much more benefit than stressing the poor kid out with reading/writing (as they do here in the UK at age 4) when she is not ready/interested. This way she can develop a love of learning,etc. And by the age of 7-7.5, it would only take her a couple of months to learn to read/write (as it does in Northern Europe) rather than 3-4 years of jamming stuff into somebody who is not ready.

If the only/main reason you can think of for not back-yearing her is that she'll end up in a class where the others know each other then honestly go with your gut instinct and keep her back a year. That honestly won't be as damaging as starting her too soon. On the other hand, a lot can change in a year so don't feel you have to decide now.

I do totally agree that we start children too early at school; in some cases long before they are developmentally ready and so have to battle to train them to do things they don't understand. It seems worse than pointless - it actually damages their long-term education. I like the idea of putting her straight into year 3 or 4. From what others have said on other threads, y3 is much about reinforcing y2 work - maybe that would be the time.

I also think you are right that a lot can change in a year. The trouble is, many of her friends were put down for schools - normal state schools - before they were two!

children may have been " put down for" particular state schools when they were born BUT does it make any real difference according to teh schools admissions policy? Round here SN, catchment and siblings are teh only real things that make a difference, every one applies for school places at teh same time through teh county wide system. Even having been at that school nursery class won;t mean an automatic reception class place if you are out of area.

From my county councils online documents about defering or delaying entry to reception or Y1. They prefer to defer rather than delay to keep children with their year group as they go up the school. so you could defer a summer born to start at Easter rather than jan, they do 1 term in reception then move to Y1 with rest of class.
www.devon.gov.uk/index/learningschools/schools/admissions/admissions-determined2010.htm

I guess all countys should have something similar. If you go and look for it.

------
3.5 Where a parent wishes to defer entry to September 2011 but enter in the Reception class, out of
the child?s chronological cohort, a fresh application must be made under the co-ordinated
admissions scheme for that year of entry. This is called delayed entry. Such an application must
be supported in writing by an educational, medical or social care professional, demonstrating a
detriment to the child by not entering into Reception in September 2011.
3.6 A deferred entry procedure has been introduced to enable parents to secure a school place
before postponing admission by up to two school terms where the child is considered to require
more time to be ready for school. This procedure is intended to better meet the needs of children
not considered ready for a September 2010 start at school.

Thank you, UniS. Doesn't look too hopeful to me, then. They do think they know better than I do about my child (even when I have worked in education for years and have seen what it can do. Good and bad.) May have to just think about keeping her out of school until I decide she should go. My DH says just send her when I want to, keep her home several days a week "they can't do anything". From my experience, teachers can be very down on irregular attenders and make them feel very bad about themselves.

Hi Racingsnake! I am really interested in your thread as my daughter is due to start reception this September at the age of four years and 4 months. LIke you, I feel very strongly that children should not go to school too early. In most of the Western world, children don't start formal education until they're six or seven and it really benefits them in the long term. Why not let children be children? I get the feeling children are starting school early to get more parents out to work. Anyway, I am not sure what to do. My daughter is currently at a school nursery and really enjoying it. It is five mornings a week and she comes home, has lunch, has a nap and then plays with me and her little brother. She has made lots of nice friends and it has really brought her out (she was quite shy in large groups before). Unfortunately she has not managed to get a reception place at this school, where she would have started in Jan, and has been offered a place at another school in September. It is going to be such an upheaval for her; new school, new children as well as coping with a more formal curriculum. I'm not even that keen on the school to be honest! My gut feeling is to keep her on at the nursery and wait until next September ( in that time a place might have come up at our preferred school) but starting year one without doing a year in reception might be to her detriment. She takes a while getting used to new surroundings and making friends and at Year one a lot of the children will have formed their friendship groups. As a teacher I would really value your opinion in this. Also what is the difference between reception and year one? And could my daughter do half days in reception for as long as she needed to? The length of the school day worries me; she still has a nap during the day. I think the school nursery setting is teaching her some basics about numbers and letters anyway so why does she need to start reception so soon?

Jaded: Lots of questions and all very difficult to answer definitively.

A good reception class would be very like the nursery - lots of play and group work and very informal. Legally, however, the adult-child ratio can be much lower than in nursery - the minimum would probably be 1 teacher and 1 assistant to 30 children, or even just one teacher. (There may be more staff, if you are lucky). Other reception classes are very formal and the children are sitting still for long periods and starting phonics, which may be fine for some but will do damage to others whose fine motor skills are not yet as developed. To start the school experience with experience of failure seems to me quite wrong.

Some schools, eg the school where I work, allow children to attend mornings only up to Christmas, then it is full days. In our neighbouring village the children attend 3 days a week for whole days. I have heard that you can insist on your child attending mornings only, whatever the school usually does, but I would not underestimate the negative attitude the teachers would then have to this 'difficult' parent and, by extension, child. Unless of course you could show real SEN reasons for the arrangement.

Of course your child does not need to attend reception (or indeed school) at all. The nursery vouchers will continue until her fifth birthday and then stop. Other posters have said that the issue of friendship groups is possibly over rated, as these change frequently. I have certainly noticed new children coming in to all classes and fitting in immediately, while others never seem to be part of a group although they have been at school from the start. In a large school the reception class and the y1 class may be quite separate anyway and the reception children will all have to get used to new systems in year 1.

As to the difference between reception and year 1 - it depends on the school. The general trend in KS1 (what used to be called infants) is to less formality, more play and more 'topics', where they learn about all subjects through focussing on dinosaurs, toys, etc, rather than having formal lessons as in a secondary school. In fact, this is going back to the seventies and eighties, before the government decided that education should become more formal in order to raise 'standards' and primary school children were expected to learn like secondary school pupils before they were developmentally ready. Anyway, that is a slight digression. What is means is that in some schools Y1 will be integrated, play based and child friendly and in other much less so.

Are there any other types of school, such as Steiner schools near you? If I didn't live in the depths of darkest Dorset, with the nearest Steiner school an hour's drive away, that's what I would consider. There are things to dislike about them, but they are child centered and work at the child's pace of development. Reading and writing, for example, doesn't start until they are six or seven.

I'm sorry that this hasn't been much help - schools differ so much and I am not sure how you really find out about a school. I know that OfSTED data is a waste of time, as is the school's website, etc. I can only think of word of mouth, and even then it is really personal.

Rs- would deferring entry till easter of reception be any help for your DD? in Devon at least parents have the right to do that with no input from any other " professional".
I suspect if you want to wait till she is 6/ 7 you will need to look at home ed or the indepent sector to bridge the gap between preschool and full time school.

I was going to add what UniS has. DS is Aug 25th and we have decided that he will not be starting reception this September. School are fine about it, so we are probably going to wait until Easter. We are fortunate in that it is a shared Reception/Year 1 class, so he will at least be with the same teacher when he goes into Year 1. I really believe that it would be more damaging for him to start so early (he is very young for his age in his ways as well!!) than by missing the first two terms of his schooling.

Quite sure you are right about that, Fatzak. And I think you are right, too, UniS, that there will be no way to do what I want with the state sector. Probably change our minds several times before she gets there, anyway.

Hi Racingsnake! Thank you so much for the advice - this issue seems to be taking over everything at the moment. You've given me a lot of "food for thought" and some ideas of questions to ask the school when I look round. I have spoken to some of the parents at the school but they aren't particularly helpful (all they seem to mention is how socially mixed the school is, which is obviously going to be a feature in London). I don't really think the makeup of the school is that important. I just want to see happy children who are not pressured and mixing well with other children. Crikey, one teacher and teaching assistant to a class of 30 sounds like a momentous task!One last question - if she stays on at nursery, could the teacher incorporate any of the stuff covered in reception?
Sorry I have just talked about my case. Let's look at your thread... I think your daughter sounds fine - i only started potty training my daughter at 2 years 10 months and I really didn't see this as being behind in her development. Also she takes a bit of time to get used to new people and situations (took 2 weeks of me being with her at nursery - not long but other parents made me feel it was a life time!) but she is so happy at nursery now she breezes in. My daughter just likes to evaluate the sitution before wading in - this is positive in that she won't make hasty decisions in the future! Where dou live in Dorset? My husband used to live in Poole and we are going on holiday to Weymouth again. Dorset is such a lovely county

Hi Jaded. I'm not sure about nuersery teachers teaching reception stuff. Tbh, you could easily do it - it's alot of things like basic recognising and writing numbers up to 10 or 20, knowing which way a book opens and that written words correspond with spoken words, beginning to think about sounds 'Find me something that begins with 's'' (making sure you say 'sss' not 'es'), beginning to write letters by lots of making squiggles and patterns to improve pencil control, then writing over letters written by someone else, then trying to copy shapes. Also important is learning to join in with a group, sitting down when everyone else does, doing what the teacher asks you to, learning to wait your turn and put your hand up when you want to speak, etc. I think that the academic things are far too early, but if you wanted your daughter to miss reception you might like to do these things if the nursery doesn't feel able to, so that your daughter doesn't feel too different later. My theory (bourne out by the experience of countries where they start reading and writing much later) is that if you teach these things too early, they just take longer to learn, so that starting later does not mean that a child will be 'behind' by the age of, say, 7.

From a teacher's point of view, the most important 'academic' things your child should be able to do when she gets to school is speak in sentences using lots of different words, with lots of language (how on earth can they be expected to write a story if they can't tell a story????) and to write her name (because otherwise every piece of paper she uses will get lost!)

Reassuring to hear that your daughter did not start to be potty training at 2.10. Mine is exactly that age and we went today to choose a pot together. (Whether she will actually use it, of course ...)

I live in North Dorset and we went to Weymouth last week; after years of being a bit snobbish about the sandy beach bit with all the buckets and spades, I have found it is wonderful with children. On my profile is a picture of DD collecting shells in the drizzle on Thursday.