Please or to access all these features

Add post

Watch this thread

Save thread

Start a new thread

Flip thread

Hide thread

My feed

Active Unanswered threads

Getting started FAQ's

Unanswered threads Acronyms Talk guidelines

Hide shortcut buttons

Talk

Education

Join the discussion on our Education forum.

Flip

1 2

Original poster

faith schools

44 replies

Greatfun · 27/04/2009 20:14

My DD starts reception next year so we have to apply by the end of this year. Our 2 nearest schools are catholic. We are not.

So, I phone them today and they both told me we would have no chance of getting in even though one is 300m from my house. The reason? They prioritise catholics first and are always oversubscribed by catholics.
As I understand it 90% of their funding is from the tax payer so why exactly are they allowed to select?

Their results are very good and with good reason. Both schools require regular church attendance for 2 years prior to applying to the schools. I know many people playing the system who by luck (for them) have been bought up as catholic and reignite their relegious affiliation just in time for the 2 year clock to start ticking. Who is most likely to do this? Admittedly a generalisation but in my opinion, it would be the middle classes with their aspirations and desires for their children to do well. So the schools are effectively filtering in the middle classes who tend to do better in schools anyway from the very start.

Meanwhile my child and all the others who by birth or due to the fact their parents will not or cannot play the game,have to walk past the gates of these exclusive but publicly funded schools to go to the schools that are out of their immediate area and neighbourhood or are second best.

Oh and don't forget. Whilst walking past the school gate in question we will be breathing in the car fumes from all the cars that have had to travel especially to the school as they don't actually live any where near it.

OP posts:

solidgoldSneezeLikeApig · 27/04/2009 23:08

I am pretty sure that if it's a state school then it has to provide a percentage of places for non-Catholic pupils: have a word with the relevant department at the local council.

Concordia · 27/04/2009 23:08

acutally both DH and I have irish roots and ancestors who were thrown out of the catholic church (a few generations back)
do you think that counts?

LynetteScavo · 27/04/2009 23:09

zanzibarmum - the people you have described are all people who are seeking a better life for their families, and so will be keen to encourage their children educationally.

zanzibarmum · 27/04/2009 23:18

Lynette perhaps. What's wrong with that. Perhaps we should start a thread on why some of the indigenous white working class are not aspirant for themselves and their children. Perhaps it the celebrity obsessed values. Whereas Catholics are only ever promised salvation in the next life.

LynetteScavo · 27/04/2009 23:20

An interesting thought.

Original poster

Greatfun · 28/04/2009 08:59

Thanks for you input everyone. To clarify I want my DCs to attend a school nearby and one that has good results. Who doesn't? I don't really want to walk 25-30 minutes just to go to school when there is two schools 5 and 15 minutes from my house. Quite why there are two RC schools in such close proximity to one another when they are so exclusive with their admissions policy is a mystery.

Our next nearest school is about a 25 minute walk (at DCs pace on a scooter) from my home. DD is at the nursery there now but our chance of getting into the school for reception is quite low as we are relatively far away. The next nearest school after that is on special measures so therefore not popular so we could well get placed there if not on the other side of the borough.So thats a choice of a failing school or one far from home simply because we are not catholic.

I also wasn't saying working class people don't care about their childs education. I was making a very general observation based on what I have seen (I had said IME rather than a statement of fact). I know several people who suddenly start attending church when their DC is about 2 and they have all been middle class and very clued up on local school admission policy.

Anyway I am off to write to my MP. Good suggestion.

OP posts:

abraid · 28/04/2009 09:20

Catholic schools may get better results because the parents and teachers of Catholic children perhaps tend not to have fallen into the relativist ideology that seems endemic right now.

By that I mean that Catholic children who attend eithe a Catholic school or some kind of Catholic education (children's liturgy or various after-school clubs/First Holy Communion) are usually taught very clearly and bluntly that some things are good and some bad.

Being unkind to someone isn't just 'not very nice', it's actually a sin. It's wrong, period.

Children benefit from some black and white.

I'm not saying that other faiths/non faiths don't do something similar but I think Catholicism's unequivocable stance on some matters (I'm talking about bullying, being unkind, lying, stealing, etc) may actually benefit some children.

zanzibarmum · 28/04/2009 17:30

Greatfun. Who is your MP? There may be some information out there on him or her with respect to education.

leosdad · 28/04/2009 20:23

historically the buildings were actually paid for by the catholic church and its parishioners.

Also the better results may be because everyone has to make an active choice to go there rather than just being allocated a place so there tends to be more parental support.

MP probably not able to do much as the admissions criteria for faith schools has been tried and tested in various court judgements etc.

However you may be able to get a place, greatfun, if there are two catholic schools very close there can't be that many practicing or baptised catholics in the area. Our school this year admitted about 30% non catholics

LynetteScavo · 28/04/2009 22:47

abraid - you've made a very, very interesting point there. I wonder if that is why my son is getting on so well at his Catholic school.

abraid · 30/04/2009 22:01

Sorry, LynetteScavodidn't mean to leave the subject theregot distracted.

For primary school aged children, being totally clear that bullying or stealing, say, is a 'sin' there's less room for misunderstanding.

fruitbeard · 01/05/2009 14:54

pmsl @ the idea that Catholics are middle class... coming as I do from Irish immigrant stock who grew up in one of those 'Bread' houses off Scotty Road in Liverpool... yes, I've become slightly more MC in my old age (I even own a Boden top) but my church attendance has nothing to do with my class!

We are loads more intelligent, tho'

ADealingMummy · 04/05/2009 20:55

Our local primary school (not catholic), was marked as ''outstanding'' by Ofsted. A seriously high percentage of children take their 11+ , and go on to state funded Grammar schools from there.

Everyone raves about our local primary. Even our house holds more value, because of it's locality to the amazing non-catholic primary school.

..... yet still I prefer my DD to attend the nearest Catholic school. This Catholic school may not have glowing reports, but it feels right for my daughter. It appeals to me , because it has such high values and standards.
Hardly any pupils are encouraged to take their 11+, probably because the pupils are ear-marked for a Catholic secondary school.

ravenAK · 04/05/2009 21:02

State schools do well because they attract keen, involved parents, attested by 2 years churchgoing - it's not rocket science.

I could open a secular school for which the entry requirement was willingness of parent to moon in Boots window for an hour every Sunday, & get similar results.

Totally inappropriate for them to be funded by the very people they exclude. Grr on your behalf OP.

ravenAK · 04/05/2009 21:02

'Church' not 'state'. Durrrh.

zanzibarmum · 04/05/2009 23:25

ravenAK - yes but what would be the benefit of mooning in Boots? Would you get points on your card? Is that your idea

Divineintervention · 04/05/2009 23:28

I am an atheist and my dcs are about to switch to a Catholic school, it (along with two others) are the best in the area. It is an outstanding school and does better than the school they're at which I pay for!!!
What is it about this parenting business that makes me such a turncoat????

Divineintervention · 04/05/2009 23:30

If I had gone to a Catholic school perhaps I would have used is and not are.......

zanzibarmum · 04/05/2009 23:42

Over recent years Catholic school's entry criteria have become less and less restrictive, driven by the govt's codes of practice and ombudsman/adjudicator decisions. As they have become less exclusive to practising Catholics so they have become more accessible to lapsed Catholics.

In responding to state pressure to become less strict in terms of Catholicity criteria the danger is that the Catholic schools are now open to the charge that they are just for middle-class, nominal Catholic parents - the same charge we are seeing in some of these posts and which, I have some sympathy with. However, the alternative more exclusive entry criteria in terms of Catholicity may not be the answer the posters here are looking for either.

Flip

1 2