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Original poster

Sorry.... probably yet another question on appealing.....

21 replies

winestein · 02/04/2009 20:11

Does anyone know the answer to this...

I am researching my appeal against my son not being given either of my choices for his school (and not being allocated a place anywhere as my closest school is full, unsuprisingly, it being a voluntary aided CofE school in a small village).

In doing so, I have found that Authorities MUST offer a choice of 3 schools as preference, and yet we were only offered 2. I can not see how to use this in appeal though. It is clearly against the code of admissions, but on appeal you have to state the particular school - not just a general gripe. He may have been offered a place in our local village had I have been given 3 choices.

Does anyone have any advice?

OP posts:

clam · 02/04/2009 21:40

How do you mean, you were only offered two? Do you mean that there were only two boxes to complete on the application form?

BetsyBoop · 02/04/2009 21:46

I don't know the answer, but an interesting find as our LEA only allowed you to state ONE preference this time round for primary applications.

(I'm waiting to see what they'll do next year when I need to apply for DD's place)

xfabba · 02/04/2009 22:29

Do you mean you could only put 2 on the form? We could put 3 but were given none and that seems perfectly legal in our LEA - lots of people didn't get one of their 3 choices this year. Where does it say they have to allow you to state a preference for 3? I am not sure how I can see how that can be used either if they can ignore your preferences anyway. Am interested to hear as we are appealing too.

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 08:38

Thanks ladies!

clam - yes, there were only 2 boxes. Sorry - my choice of word was confusing!

Xfabba - it's in the Code of Appeals. I wanted to see if I could use the fact I was only given 2 somehow in appealing against the fact we haven't ended up with a school place.

Don;t know if I can though. Any one have any advice?

OP posts:

titchy · 03/04/2009 09:04

Could you say that if you were able to put three schools down you would have put a different one down as first choice, or that you would have put a particular school down as your third, back up, choice, and so not ended up with the presumably crap one the LEA have given you that you don't want?

clam · 03/04/2009 09:27

But if they won't even necessarily give you one of your preferences if you put 3 (or 6 in London boroughs, I believe), what difference would it make?

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 09:32

Titchy - they haven't allocated us one at all. I would have probably got into my local school had I have applied as I am close to it... but as I didn;t it is full with a waiting list (no doubt from people further away)

Clam - the difference is that they haven't adhered to the code of practice - choice of 3 as a minimum - which has scuppered my chance of getting into my local school. It is appealable as it is mandatory... but I am not sure how to appeal against it as when you get the appeal forms you appeal against the individual school place decision, not the overall process IYSWIM.

OP posts:

titchy · 03/04/2009 09:36

I thought one of the grounds forupholding an appeal was that the LEA hadn't followed correct procedures? On that basis I would think your appeal would almost certainly be upheld - also on the fact that the LEA hasn;t offered you a place - I thought they had to offer you somewhere, even if it's 30 miles away.

Whether you'd get allocated a school of prefernce though if your appeal is successful is aniother matter though, although presumably you'd go straight to the top of the wait list.

ScummyMummy · 03/04/2009 09:36

Don't they have to offer you a school place somewhere?

clam · 03/04/2009 09:41

Yes, scummy, but that could be at the local Borstal.
And presumably everyone only had 2 preferences to state. So do they allow everyone's appeals?

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 09:45

No Scummy they don't, unfortunately. What they do have to do is make parents fully aware of the consequences of not applying to a school in their catchment though, which they have also failed to do. It is my responsibility to apply for further schools... but they will all be miles away.

Titchy - exactly.. but I am appealing against the fact that I didn't get my first choice on the basis that I submitted the application with support from a health professional and they dismissed it. The fact that they didn;t offer 3 schools has no bearing on that, but it does have a bearing on DS not ending up with a school at all.

Basically I think I need to appeal twice on two seperate issues, but I am not sure how to do that.

OP posts:

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 09:49

Clam - the majority of people got their first choice and those that didn't got a place at their second school. I doubt many of them will be looking in to appealing thus realise they should have been offered 3.

I'm not sure about the point you are trying to make?

OP posts:

ScummyMummy · 03/04/2009 09:56

Oh gosh, Weinstein. That sounds like a mare. My boys didn't get offered a primary either (a good few years ago now) but the local authority did have a responsibility to find them somewhere. They didn't tell me to go off and find a school in another borough or anything like that. It actually all worked out in the end as lots of people dropped out and they got to the top of the waiting list for one of the schools I'd initially applied for. Have you found out where your son is on the waiting lists? Separate issue to appealing, I know, but worth doing. Good luck with your appeal. I hope someone more knowledgeable will come along and suggest helpful things.

clam · 03/04/2009 10:02

Well, if your appeal is upheld on the grounds that the County hasn't followed the rules of allowing 3 preferences, then that applies to everyone. And yet they can't give everyone a place on appeal. However, it seems like the numbers are different in your neck of the woods, but hundreds appeal round here.
But it seems very harsh that they haven't offered him a place anywhere. What on earth are you expected to do?

Are you saying that you didn't list the local school at all, but that you would have if you'd had 3 chances? Because round here you're not allowed to appeal for a school you didn't list.

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 10:04

Thank you for your good wishes Scummy

I know where he is on the waiting lists - last for both. So we have no school and no reasonable chance of being offered a place fromt he waiting list. I'm looking to get them on all 3 appealable grounds - but in particular the one on reasonableness (givent he crcumstances of the health professionals supporting letter.)

OP posts:

Original poster

winestein · 03/04/2009 10:07

Yes - that's it exactly Clam.

I know they don't just automatically allow appeals if they didn;t follow the code. I have to prove that DS would have got a place had they have followed it... and as I haven;t got a school to appeal against I am lost as how I could use it.

Got to go out now - will check in later.

OP posts:

seeker · 03/04/2009 10:17

Surely they have to have offered a school? They have a statutory obligation to provide a school place for a school age child.

LIZS · 03/04/2009 10:21

If most people got their 1st or 2nd choice then even had you been able to put your local one 3rd you may well have not got a place there. I too thought they had to offer a place somewhere but if your child is young for the year group maybe not immediately.

KathrynAustin · 03/04/2009 13:27

We live between Merton & Wandsworth (SW London) and we applied to both Boroughs. Merton gave us 3 choices, and Wandsworth gave us 4!

There clearly needs to be some uniformity or the system is just too unfair.

mumto3boys · 03/04/2009 14:06

Are you able to now apply for the school that you were unable to put as third choice as you were not allowed one? In theory, I suppose you could then appeal for that school on the grounds that you were unable to apply in the first place as you were only allowed 2 choices on the original form.

I don't think that its relavent that it would have been your third choice, not first. The point would be that had they followed procedures correctly and allowed you to apply, you would have got a place.

I'm not sure you can use the grounds of only 2 choices to appeal for the 2 schools you were refused, as you wouldn't have got into either if you could have appled to 50 schools (although I agree fully with your point!)

It's a shame the appeals process is for individual schools, rather than the admissions process. Although if that was the case they'd be hearing them until next september.

Ohforfoxsake · 03/04/2009 14:12

schoolappeals.com this might help. was very useful when I appealed (unsuccessfully)

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