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Original poster

is a school allowed to do this?

331 replies

nonreligiousmummy · 21/04/2005 12:06

My 2 children go to a CofE school. I have no choice in this because it is the only school we can get to. I am very unreligious (sorry) but obviously being a CofE school they have religious stories. I hate this but know that unless I change schools (impossible) I have to put up with it. If I had my way they would not be taught religious studies.

The thing I am happy about is the fact that ds has come home from school on two different occasions now, and said that they were taken to church that day. We (the parents) had no letter or anything to tell us that this would be happening or to ask our permission. Can the school do this? Just take our kids off like that without us knowing? I think its a bit out of order. I don't know what to do. Thanks.

OP posts:
Moomin · 21/04/2005 14:27

oh ok then. seems funny though?

Enid · 21/04/2005 14:28

monks lol

Caligula · 21/04/2005 14:31

LOL at the thought of sending my kid to the Michael Howard Conservative Infant School! Have visions of the Adams Family kids populating the place...

Pamina3 · 21/04/2005 14:33

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Marina · 21/04/2005 14:34

OMG, missed that caligula! ROFL bundle.

frogs · 21/04/2005 14:47

I can't believe how worked up people are getting about this.

Aloha has a point, clearly, but until we have constitutional separation of church and state, the status quo is going to be where it's at. And presumably those of you who feel that strongly anti-religion wouldn't want your child to attend a religious school anyway, so why get so hot under the collar about the discriminatory entrance procedure? We're spoilt for choice with girls' secondary schools here -- are they all discriminating against ds when he can't get into any of them?

Most of the religious education in CoE schools seems to be pretty fluffy -- it's not as if they're teaching the kids to sacrifice goats or anything. What are you going to do when your kids get the playground version of the facts of life? I'd be a great deal more worried about that than my kids encountering a religion that I didn't share.

I spent a part of my primary education in a communist country where I remember spending PE lessons practising throwing plastic handgrenades at the class enemy. My parents thought this was pretty amusing when I recounted it, so I never took it seriously. I don't consider myself scarred for life.

morningpaper · 21/04/2005 14:52

The state part-funds schools from all religious traditions frogs, not just christian.

(Personally I'm in favour - I'd rather have some state funding and regulation of religious schools than have them become religious ghettoes that aren't answerable to anyone.)

frogs · 21/04/2005 14:58

I know that, mp -- some of the best schools in our borough are jewish, mainly pretty orthodox. Clearly we stand no chance of getting our kids in there, but I can't say I lose sleep over it. But if for some reason they did have to go there, I'd just expect them to deal with the fact that we didn't share the beliefs of the school. I don't see how that 's a problem.

donnie · 21/04/2005 15:00

LOL Frogs! personally I think a bit of goat sacrificing would be in order.....it does make me laugh that people get so wound up by this!

Sonnet · 21/04/2005 15:15

If you had absolutly no choice in which school to attend then I would visit the head and explaining this situation ask that your son does not attend church services.

IMO the point here is that of "No Choice". If you had actively chosen a CofE school then in my opinion "tough" but as this option was forced upon you I beleive you have a right to exercise a "get out clause".

Sonnet · 21/04/2005 15:18

After giving this particular issue a lot of thought a year or so ago after a heated thread on mumsnet I have come to the conclusion that I personally would be happy with a secular eduction system (as in France. I would also be happy to pay for a religious school. The flip side of the coin though is I would only be happy if I received tax relief on the school fees paid - hmm havn't quite worked out what I would do should I or anybody else be unable to avoid school fees.

aloha · 21/04/2005 15:21

Bundle, but suppose you lived right next door to The Michael Howard Primary, and a bit further on there was the Mrs Thatcher of All Monetarism JMI and then there was the Edward Heath First School? You might feel a bit put out, wouldn't you? There are parts of London that have the religious equivalent of this!

PsychoFlame · 21/04/2005 15:22

Haven't had a good goat sacrifice in a long time...

morningpaper · 21/04/2005 15:28

I'd love to send dd to The Thatcher School - it would guarantee she'd be a rampant leftie for the rest of her life... I can see her now, standing on the steps selling the Socialist Worker...

bundle · 21/04/2005 15:31

pmsl aloha! and i bet the good mothers of norf london would be signing up on the dotted line... me, i'd be in the Arthur Scargill Sandpit

roisin · 21/04/2005 15:33

I've been hesitating about posting on her, butI just don't understand the issue really. Dh and I are committed Christians, the boys have always gone to church and Sunday School, their school has quite a strong Christian bias ... plenty of scope for indoctrination there! But we have taught them to think for themselves.

DS1 (7) is - and has been for some time - a convinced atheist
I just don't see the problem.

Marina · 21/04/2005 15:35

Or the John Prescott Bouncy Castle bundle
Very funny aloha

SoupDragon · 21/04/2005 15:36

Ignoring the religeous side of this, I had to sign a consent form giving permission for DSs to be taken on outings around the school's vicinity. Saves the school sending a form home for every ittle jaunt to the post office, florist or local woods.

As it happens, one of these trips was to church last week. It's a bog standard primary and we're non-religeous and I didn't have a problem with this at all.

On the religeous side, I'm afraid that (IMO) if your child is in a C0fE school, you have very little come back if there is religeon on the curriculum. You effectively knew what you were signing up for.

mamadadawahwah · 21/04/2005 15:57

Nonreligious, i think that if your big worries include your kids being taken to church "against" your wishes" then you dont have too much to worry about. There are far worse things in life. Religion and God play a part in the majority of people's lives and your kids will learn to appreciate what all the fuss is about (I assume you have talked about "God" in front of them). whether you are anti religion or pro religion, give the kids a chance to experience it for themselves. If it means nothing to you as a family then whats the diff between going to a church or an ice cream parlour. With the education system, you really have to "choose" your battles. Personally, i wouldnt let my child go on any "bus runs". I wouldnt allow him in a vehicle being driven by anyone but myself (apart from buses trains and planes.)

Toothache · 21/04/2005 16:04

MamaDadaWahwah - Some people put as much importance on NOT believing as others put on believing. This is very important to some people. Doesn't need to be dismissed like that. I can't understand what all the fuss is about kids watching TV or having the odd MacD's but people get SO het up about it. I would say this is probably a bit more important than that.... I wouldn't want my children being led to believe in something that I have strong beliefs against at the most influencial time in their life! But Aloha has already put that in a better way so I won't go over it again.

Enid · 21/04/2005 16:09

come on, spill, where do you live so we can all look up other schools for you

Eaney · 21/04/2005 16:25

My son came home from school around about Easter and was telling me about Jesus on the cross. I realised that I really didn't like him being exposed to the violence of the crucifiction. He kept asking me how was Jesus put on the Cross. I was very reluctant to tell him.

My sister ia a primary teacher and was recently teaching her class about the crucification when one of the little boys piped up and said 'the poor wee baby'. You see 3 months earlier she had thought them about the lovely baby Jesus and now he was being nailed to a cross.

bundle · 21/04/2005 16:28

enid

Gwenick · 21/04/2005 16:28

but Eaney - I remember visiting the Yorvik Viking centre and 'similar' type places when I was at primary school and seeing the 'instruments' of torture of the middle ages in England! Is the story of teh crucifiction (whether you believe it or not) any different ot learning about what they used to do to "Witches" and criminals in the middle ages?

Bozza · 21/04/2005 16:37

Well my DS came home from nursery and told me that Jesus was naughty and so he had a cross put on his face. Apparently the harvest man told him.

This is DS-speak for the vicar who he can first remember coming in at harvest time.

I do take him to church sometimes. And I did a Bible story sticker book with him that my Mum bought but he got fixated on the robbers in the Good Samaritan story. Had no interest in the injured bloke or the Samaritan. And since then he has been asking me to find the page in the Children's Bible with "the nasty robbers with the big sticks".

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