is a school allowed to do this?

[nonreligiousmummy]

My 2 children go to a CofE school. I have no choice in this because it is the only school we can get to. I am very unreligious (sorry) but obviously being a CofE school they have religious stories. I hate this but know that unless I change schools (impossible) I have to put up with it. If I had my way they would not be taught religious studies.

The thing I am happy about is the fact that ds has come home from school on two different occasions now, and said that they were taken to church that day. We (the parents) had no letter or anything to tell us that this would be happening or to ask our permission. Can the school do this? Just take our kids off like that without us knowing? I think its a bit out of order. I don't know what to do. Thanks.

NRM, I believe that, provided that you are at a school in England or Wales, that you retain your right under s9(3) of the 1988 Education Reform Act to withdraw your children from religious Education and collective worship. The school would still be responsible for supervising your child at these times. You are not required to give your reason for this notice of withdrawal, and you may revoke it whenever you choose. In practice it is likely that the head will want to discuss with you the alternative arrangements for your children during these times, and to check that they fully understand your wishes. IME the children usually join another class when their class is having RE, and they were suppervised by the school secretaries during assembly/ services etc.

If you're not in England or Wales, then perhaps you could let us know where you are, so that we can consider other ways of helping?

Presumably then parents of non-participating children would also be removing them from nativity plays, carol services, and any other religious based activities - how do the children feel about being the "odd ones out" or at least making up a small number of "odd ones out"? At our school the children who forget its Mufti day are inconsolable when they turn up in uniform and find there's not many of them!

You can choose - the withdrawal can be "partial", so it is not an all or nothing. You could just ask that your child be removed from church services if that is what bothers you.

The difficulty with the "partial" approach, is that if the school isn't any good at letting you know their plans (as seems to be the case here), then you may not know that the nativity play is coming up for example. But at least this route gets you in to talk to the Head, who is legally obliged to consider your wishes.

On a slightly lighter note - if you are so set against your children going into a church as you don't believe in Jesus or God, do you celabrate Easter or Christmas?

Not criticising - just curious .

Yes, whether Jesus rose again or was the Son of God is a matter of faith. But Christianity DID happen, whatever event it was based upon.

If nonreligiousmummy is unhappy with her child learning "religious stories" and being told they are true, she could always say to her child "well that s what some people believe, others don't". that s what I tell my children and they can then enjoy the story and make up their own mind. But to remove them from, say, learning about Daniel in the lion's den or Mary and Martha is to deny them their own cultural heritage.

Jampots - which is all IMO another good reason for taking religion (except, of course, teaching about religion) out of schools. No exclusion, no sectarianism, no teaching myths and legends as facts. All schools open to all children, regardless of their parents' beliefs. Easy.

re church schools and results. Some church schools are in very 'good' catchements - such as the primary in the heart of Dulwich Village near me. Others are extremely selective. They can't offer entrance exams but making sure that parents attend church week in and week out does effectively remove the children of chaotic homes and replaces them with the offspring of organised and desperate middle-class parents.
I don't really think God blesses the religious with better exam grades.

i find it amazing that we can send our kids to church based schools purely for the good education and leave the bits we dont want. Also not sure I agree with encouraging kids to be non-conformist so far across the board

I agree with Victoria Peckham on both her threads. Is this a first, ever, on Mumsnet?

Sacha, not sure that Christmas and Easter are "purely" Christian festivals. There were "equivalent" festivals around those times of year prior to the introduction of Christianity.

Sasha3Taylor, neither Christmas or Easter are fundamentally Christian festivals. In fact Christians actually hijacked pagan festivals (Goddess Oestra whose cult animal was a hare etc) and claimed them as their own. There is nothing remotely hypocritical for a non-religious family to have a tree, light a fire, exchange presents and to have easter eggs - they all predate Christianity. I like festivals and chocolate.
And once again NOBODY has advocated not teaching about religion. I don't know why that keeps coming up.

And Jampots. (Hello Jampots!)

DD1 has a slight Jesus obsession at the moment, but she was also very taken with Diwali when they celebrated it at school last year. And she does love a latke...and a matzo...

What do you mean by non-conformist, Jampots?

Jampots - I think that is OUTRAGEOUS that a minority religious organisation can contribute 10% of a state school's budget then control up to 90% of the intake. I cannot think of any reason why that is fair or reasonable.

Thankyou ALoha and Ladymuck. Like I said, I diddn't want to affend anyone I was just curious. Thankyou for letting me know

Jampots, whilst the right of withdrawal does apply to everyone, clearly a foundation church school would probably take issue with this, and review your application for a place at that school.

It is in place to protect those who don't have an easy choice to do otherwise - the many village schools in our country, which are church schools because the church provided schools before the state did, and they remain church schools so long as the diocese coughs up 10% of the maintenance costs.

I also would rather not be in a position to have to say, "darling, your teacher is talking crap'. I don't think that's a good idea at all.

Hello Tanzie

Aloha - Im sure God doesnt bless churchschoolchildren with better grades but i do think a regular attendance at church does show willing to commit. After all, turning up to work is a committment and results in a paypacket at the end of the week/month and going the extra mile at work can sometimes lead to a promotion

So God is responsible for good results????

Aloha, a bit of a generalisation - again outside of urban areas a lot of the population would consider themselves CofE, even if they were not strong believers themselves. So in the local communities it may not be the "minority religion".

another good reason for taking religion (except, of course, teaching about religion)
out of schools. No exclusion, no sectarianism

But the opposite happens. If you withdraw state support from religious schools, then they simply become private schools, run by extremists without regards to the society around them.

Religious tolerance is one of the great things about our society IMO.

Aloha: I really don't think that the kind of religious teaching you are terrified of is actually happening.

agree with vp on this one.