Starting School 'Early'

[WedgiesMum]

Living in Derbyshire where we have two intakes to School. My not yet 4 year old is due to go in January 2004. But he's very bright (feedback from pre-school and Nursery), and this causes problems when he's bored and not stimulated enough. Health Visitor and friends who are teachers have suggested trying to get him into School in Sept because it will do him good. School has good record with bright children. Any experience? Any advice? Getting stressed about being told he is being naughty all the time at Nursery, when it seems to me he's just grown out of it and is too bright to want to wait for the others to keep up.

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Will it do him good though? I was under the impression that the foundation year is very similar to the nursery curriculum. Can't the nursery "extend" him? As they have higher staff ratios surely they have the potential to be more flexible than a school?

Why is he told he's being naughty? If he's having trouble sitting and waiting won't that be worse in a school environment? Or do you think being round older children will help? I'd talk to the school and the nursery and see what they both think.

A friend kept her son out of school until the January intake. He is a lively chld and she felt he would be better in playgroup and out of a school setting for an extra term. However, she spent the whole autumn term having problems with playgroup as he was now one of the eldest (only one other the same age iirc) and was bored.

He settled into school very quickly in the January.

There is a lot of discussion about what is best for children going to school, but here in the UK we send our children to school earlier than anywhere else in Europe, as far as I know, yet educationally we are outperformed by a lot of these coutries where children do not start 'proper' school until 6 or even 7. A good nursery should be able to extend the activities to fit in with him, and to be honest it sounds like the nursery can't be bothered doing this.
I'm a teacher, adn interestingly most teachers I know think most children go to school too early, including the 2 reception class teachers I know. I'm very lucky, as I live in Scitland I have the option of sending both of mine (because they have Feb birthdays) at either 4.5 or 5.5, and my intention is to keep both of them until 5.5, as is fairly normal where I live. I am doing this because we have a superb preschool who are prepared to lay on extra work and more challenging activities for bright children - and my dd seems to fall into that category.
It is your decision but I would look into it in more detail - talk to the nursery about what they can provide, and to the school abou their opinion.
Hope another perspective on it helps. All the best

I think you know your son best, WedgiesMum, and should probably try for September start to school.

Although this is quite a while ago, my sister started school in the September intake although her birthday isn't until July. When she started she seemed so young and little but was always very bright and alert. The GP backed up my mum's desire to get her into the first intake on this basis. Sister did really well and came on in leaps and bounds. BTW, she is now almost 21 and in her final year of a law degree, gaining great marks.

Thanks for this everyone. Ds's nursery can cope with him in the morning when the pre-school teacher is there as she is used to this kind of thing. It's the afternoons when its the Nursery nurses in charge and they just don't seem able to stretch him enough (interestingly though I seem to manage at home with nearly 2 Dd charging round too), despite me having talked it over with them (and been made to feel its my fault). I'm going to talk to the Head at the School and see what he says. THANKS! It's good to get different perspectives and I'll let you know what happens.

Just to update you on this.

Spoke to the School and got absolutely nowhere, they are not interested in starting him or in giving me any help in finding something suitable in the mean time...ho hum ... tried the Area Education Office for help to and still nothing - it's not county policy apparently and 'you can write to the Director of Education if you like but you will still get the same answer'.

FEELING VERY FRUSTRATED!!! Sorry for shouting but am really cross at people's attitudes today! I think they think I'm just a pushy mother, but I only want what is best for DS......:-((

So - big sigh and change of tactic - does anyone have any advice on things I can be doing with him between now and January?? We currently do lots of stuff on the pc - structured stuff and stories and games too - any advice on suitable cd roms?? programmes?? Also do some drawing/writing skills stuff and lots of sharing of books and stories. Anything good in the way of work books?? Plus of course the constant why why why why why answers (good job me and DH can talk for england isn't it??)which are getting more and more involved. Going to tackle the issue with Nursery and try to get them on side too and ask them for support and possible things to do at home.

But any advice would be welcome.

Thanks for listening to the rant again.:-)

At DD's school in Reception the children would 'work' in the morning and then 'play' in the afternoon which is not dissimilar (I think) to what you are describing can happen at your current choice of nursery.

She has now been in Y1 for two terms and their 'play' time has been gradually phased out, going from two afternoons a week to none over the course of three terms. They have inside gym on a Monday afternoon, outside on a Wed, and dancing on a Friday. Included in the curriculum, they also have drama, dance and French as well as the other core subjects.

It's only my opinion but I do think it's important for children to learn to play at school. DD seems to have been born with an old head on her shoulders and she has always liked to 'work' (write stories, do sums, read, learn about history and geography) when she is at school. However, I would like her to learn that the other subjects covered during the day are also important. This is something I didn't learn when I was in school and I later dismissed art, games, etc out of hand rather than learning to like them as something I would never be brilliant at but could perhaps enjoy.

You can read elsewhere how my daughter responded to going into a school nursery, coming out and moving to Australia (play-based ed) and coming back to the UK for Reception. Suffice to say it certainly didn't do her any harm. And yes, she's bright.

What about things like jigsaws, art things - model making. painting, lego, roleplay. The early learning centre has lots of the jolly phonics stuff. What anout going and looking in bookshops - you can buy some good teaching resources for ideas or buy them, look at the ideas and take them back (not that I do that!) Cooking is good, sharing lots of different textures, physical things like teaching him to throw and catch, kick, throw things at a target. Sorting buttons into colours, sizes, making 3d maps using train sets and lego etc and then talking about how to get to places on the map. Singing games and making musical instruments.
I am sure you do this already, but this is just off the top of my head (from teaching practise - long ago!) I am quite against work books - he will get enough photocopied sheets during his primary years. Just talking about things and doing things practically are really important! The other thing that came to mind is if the school had space in Sept they may be willing to take him because they will get more money - so it may be worth fighting for if you think its worth it, but there are some studies that show children achieve better if they attend school later!

p.s. out of interest how to have nearly two daughters running around???

Wedgiesmum - have been mulling this over all day, so this may be rather long:

What sort of problems are there being at nursery in the afternoons? IME some children at this age just crave a more formal, structured environment, which is often lacking in a 'daycare nursery setting'. He doesn't necessarily need 'formal education' sort of stimulation, but maybe some clearer boundaries, targets, and structures. How often is he there - all day every day? Can you set him/the nursery some challenges/targets ... Maybe something physical/co-ordination like teaching him to ride a bike or tie his shoe-laces. ..?

At home? Well, what stage is he at? Does heknow all his letter sounds? Is he reading/writing? Unlike cazzybabs I am a fan of workbooks - I think it gives children a big headstart at school if they are used to sitting down and concentrating on a task and finishing a page, or whatever. There are lots of distractions at school, and learning the concentration skills at home in a quiet environment really does help. If you give me an idea of what stage he is at, I will let you know what I think the best workbooks are for that level. DS1 always loved workbooks when he was pre-school, but now he's not interested as he gets all that at school now.

However, I'm not a fan of computers for pre-school children at all .. I won't get back into that debate here ... so can't advise you on that one.

What else? Chess is great for this age. Just to contradict myself, Lego Chess is a great PC programme - no longer available, look out for it second hand.

Dorling Kindersley's Learning Ladder software seems quite good.

... Haven't finished yet!

Other things you might consider doing with him: swimming lessons, football club, teach him to ride a bike, dress and undress himself fully, tie his shoe laces, all that sort of thing ...

Go to museums, art galleries, theme parks - loads of things like that can be great with this age, so make the most of being able to take him during school term times when it is not so busy.

I think I've rambled on enough - hope it helps.

I really feel for you, and what you are going through - my two are both 'bright'. DS1 did have some problems at nursery. DS2 (4 next week) has not had any difficulties, but the nursery is very different - much more formal and structured. But they are very different characters too - so not sure who/what to blame!

Great that the school has a reputation of being good for bright children - hope that suits him well. Make the most of your last 6 months of pre-school.

Some brill ideas her y'all thanks SOOOO much! but please if anyone has any other ideas please let me know.

kmg1 - DS knows all his letter sounds and his letters and can write most letters too and can read some basic words. He knows about rhyming words, odd ones out, numbers up to 100, some basic maths (addition being a current favourite). He also likes science based stuff and doing experiments to prove his own ideas. He's at nursery 2 and a half days a week and preschool two mornings, and you're right he loves the structured stuff and gets most out of hand when he's in a less formal situation - I think he feels he's not learning anything new so he looks for something to entertain him...

The physical skills things is a good idea as he loves being able to do stuff and show others how to do it, and I like the idea about chess as he has older cousins who we see occasionally who can play and won't always let him win!!

Can I just say I love you all for being so helpful - I was feeling very disheartened yesterday and therefore in a real snotty mood.;-)

ps cheeky cazzybabs! ;-)) - mind you the way that missymoo is at the moment it feels like there is more than one of her.....

Just to echo cazzybabs re talking to him rather than worksheets. You sound dedicated and can teach him one-to-one, which is what he won't get much of in school. The world is your oyster - show him the world!

Try your local branch of the website www.netmums.com, my local one has listings of everything a little one can do in the area, it just goes on and on.

Have you thought about contacting any parents in your area who educate their children at home? There is likely to be a support group which might have ideas to help you.