Warning - LONG! Can someone explain these terms to me (statemented child, SEN/SN?, ed psych, learning difficulties)

[crokky]

Extreme ignorance coming...please help!

I'm new to education as my DCs are 3.0 and almost 12m. I have been a SAHM since DS was born 3yrs ago and he hasn't been to a nursery or anything like that, although he has been to football sessions, softplay and stuff like that.

His govt. grant for 3/4 yos starts next term so I thought that I would send him to a nursery that is part of a school for 3 mornings a week and build it up so that he is OK when he starts reception in 18 months time. This was my plan, but perhaps I was a bit deluded, judging by what a nursery teacher said to me this week.

He went for 2 introductory sessions at a nursery and the woman made it clear that she didn't want DS to start at the nursery! I was shocked because I just thought he was a nice ordinary 3yo boy.

She's said the following to me:

-he may have learning difficulties (so what does this mean - is this SEN or SN - are these terms different to eachother?)
-what is a "statement" - I have seen this term on MN - does my DS need to get one of these? what is it? what does it do?
-have also seen the term ed psych on MN - what is this? someone who assesses a child who they think has difficulties?

She ended with "I can't help him".

I do know a tiny bit about special needs - my twin brothers have a diagnosis of aspergers syndrome (but they only got this diagnosis aged 20, as things were different when we were children I suppose and there was never any educational help, they were just in an ordinary school with no special help). My mum obv has a lot of experience with aspergers syndrome and she does not consider DS to similar to my brothers in this respect. So I don't think it is this and I have no idea what the nursery teacher was getting at.

DS has recently seen the HV and she gave him this checklist regarding his speech. He passed all 5 points that she wanted him to and she said that his speech was behind, but that it did not warrant a referral to a speech therapist because he passed these tests. My opinion was that his speech (and understanding) was just a little bit behind his peers (perhaps 5 or 6 months) and that since he is a boy, this is nothing particuarly unusual. He can count, he can name colours, he can name lots of animals, he is toilet trained with hardly any accidents, he is kind to his sister. He does not yet speak in sentences but is able to string 4 or 5 words together, sometimes in the wrong order, but understandable. I thought this was all within a "normal" ish range and that he would progress significantly at nursery.

I don't know what to do now. Does it soundd like I should get my DS some help and if so, what sort of help and where do I get it?

PS Nursery was part of a small private school and my mum has a suspicion that they just can't be bothered with a child who is not perfect.

statement is a legal document click here

sen - special educational needs
sn - special needs
learning difficulties - problems learning, either sen or sn
ed psych - educational psychologist
She can't help him = she doesn't WANT to help him

I think your mum is right. Your son sounds completely normal!

Doea this help or just confuse?
Statement = Statement of Special Educational Needs, done by Local Education Authority to decide how much help a child with Special Needs should be provided with at school, and waht sort of school is needed. Drawn up with input from Educational Psychologists and parents and any other educational / health professionals involved in child's care. Legally binding once agreed.

Special Needs / Special Educational Needs - a child may have Special Needs (maybe physical?) but may not have Special Educational Needs, ie learning difficulties.

Attitude of nursery is a bit worrying!!!

Should you get him assessed? Yes. If someone who does not know him but DOES work with a lot of different children, met him twice and made this judgement, then you should consider the possibility. Sometimes people from 'outside' can see things that you can't iyswim.

An assessment won't give him anything [grni] and won't harm him in any way, but if there is a problem, then it is step one to getting help.

• my children are both autistic. WAY before they were talking, I was hearing them talk, because I'd, how to explain it, I'd interpret, I'd insert. They might say "ning" and I'd hear/feel "Can I have a drink please" to me, that's what they'd SAID. I don't really hear what others hear. I know that sounds daft. I also don't really hear the noise! Or notice the stims! Sometimes it takes a stranger to really SEE your child.

Ah

Hecate has a point

I think at 3 I would be slightly worried about the speak pattern you are describing. My youngest is roughly 2.5 and compared to the speech of his sisters and his peers is I would think a bit behind. Not enough to worry me really but then he is my third! But the point of this rambling is that he does have more speech then you are decsribing your 3 year old having - i.e. more of a vocabularly and will talk in longe sentances although I might be doing some interrpreting there as descibed by Hecate

The Nursery doesn't at all sound helpful and the wee scone is probably best out of it!

I would speak with my HV again and try and access a professional speech therapist. You could try asking Moondog who is I think very good at what she does and quite pragmatic in her advice.

Try not to worry too much he is still young.

Please excuse all random errors in my post - supposed to be studying!!

Hecates I had the opposite - other people would tell me my dd had said some word! I was too busy tube-feeding and dribble-wiping etc to notice unless I s t o p p e d f o r a m o m e n t !

Whats stims?

Thanks v much for replies, will need to read slowly and process later as mum has come over.

i would push for a speech therapy referral, let the experts decide if he would benefit from more input, as you are all agreed he is behind. and look for a nicer nursery, they aren't all like that. Language problems sadly aren't that unusual - about 1 in 10 kids are affected - so you should find plenty of nurseries - IME school ones are better - who are happy to work with you and your DS to bring his language on.

loggedout - it's, well, it's tics, repeated actions, self-stimulating behaviours. - or verbal stims are repeated words (diff from echolalia btw)

for example, ds1 used to waggle his fingers in front of his face all the time. ds2 currently does a weird wrist shake. In the past they've done coughs, eye widening, lining, all manner of things!

stims are different from tics - I know, I've got one who tics and one who stims

tics are completely involuntary movements or noises and there is an element of compulsion - the child has to perform the action in order to feel right but probably doesn't notice they're doing it until they're older

stims are more purposeful, repeated movements which tend to go on for longer - ds2 used to flap his hands when excited and now clasps them repeatedly and makes "pchow, pchow" noises - looks very different from ds1's ticcing

That distinction is lost on me when I've got a pair of flapping, wagging, shaking, juddering loonies in front of me they seem pretty compelled to do these things to me! ds2 in particular doesn't really seem aware that he's shaking about!

Sounds like you had a lucky escape from that nursery but why not go and see your HV and tell her what they said?

Thanks everyone.

You are right when you say that I sometimes don't see things with DS as a stranger would and I do not really know what is "normal", I just love my DS. My mum says I do have a tendency to take on the language DS uses - instead of saying "flower", he would say "fie". Somehow I ended up using the word fie instead of flower as well. But this was when he was not even 2yrs old - he says flower now.

I have had a very lucky escape from that nursery. I primarily chose it because it was very close to us, but I will be much happier for DS to go to a place where they actually want him and are willing to help him even if I have to do a bit of driving to get there. Am going to another place this morning to see if DS would be OK going there. It has a few SEN staff so hopefully they will want to help him if it is necessary. Will see what they say and then go back to HV if necessary, although HV was happy with DS as recently as 3 weeks ago.

Am really struggling to forget the original nursery teacher being so negative about my lovely little boy.

All complicated by the fact that although DS just turned 3 last week, he is the size of a 5yo. People sometimes expect much better behaviour from him than he is capable of.

It does sound like you have had a lucky escape. However, I believe that they were not acting within the law, as they can't refuse to take a child due to their special need unless the child's differences are going to impact very negatively on other children's education - and it doesn't sound as if that's the case!

All the best with a better, more caring and open nursery.

I'm not saying that your son has SEN but health visitors are not always very good at spotting things, they missed my son's AS as he performed all the tests beautifully!

the nursery isn't called stonehouse is it?

Unfortunately, private nurseries/schools are a law of their own. The can and do refuse to take a child with special needs if they feel they cannot cater for their needs. Many will also charge for any extra input they have to give. You are better off being in the 'public' domain ifswim.

Don't panic. Nurseries attached to schools have v different criteria to stand alone ones. Get your HV involved and maybe send your DS to stand alone nursery/ playgroup; My 2 DD went to a private Montessori Nursery. DS, who is now 9 and NT went to a local council nursery as they were much better prepared to deal with his needs and to liaise with speech therapists and other health professionals. Good Luck!

As Ally said HV's camnmiss things (they mised ds3- said hewas fine, actually he had severe sppech delays and autism).

The earlier you get help if your child needs it the better for them, waiting lists are often heinusly long- years. You can take your child off a list or cancel an appointment but you can't speed it along if you suddenly get worried IOYSWIM. So I would get tings moving- chances are what you will get is a professional reassurance.

Best place to start with a debatable HV is with the GP. get a referral to a developmental Paed, get the okay and move forwards.

And yes lucky escape from the nursery. Phew on that one!

Yes I agree with Peachy. It's best to go to your GP and discuss issues with him. This can also link you in to other support such as speech therapy - were it needed.
It's not nice to be spoken to so bluntly about your own dc. That kind of approach is poor practice - to leave you with a flat 'no' and no further info or support - thank goodness he isn't going there!

Hi,

My son is now 4 with a speech and language delay of about 18 months. Last year we went through a year of hell with him being in a nursery attached to a small private school. They knew in advance that he had communication difficulties and very quickly they were excluding him from activities because of his SEN even suggesting that it would be embarrassing for the school for him to take part on stage, ultimately they made the decision that he was autistic and rejected him from the school, despite independant assessment from one of the top child psychologists in the world who specialises in autism and ASD stating that he was not autistic. The private school basically can't cope with anyone who needs any extra help and finds it an embarrassment for anyone to be in their eyes anthing other than a high achiever, their definition of SEN is a child who is a normal average child not attaining their expectations in reading, writing and maths.
My son now has a statement of special needs, attends a small state primary school where he gets one to one support, his TA works with his SLT on a programme which has seen his speech and language increase from about 50 words to 700 since september. I'm glad that my DS now attends his new school, he's happy, developing well and has made lots of friends. I have no regrets, but the private school head and some of his staff are bigots and are encouraging their pupils to also become bigots and not be open to the diversity of the world.

agree with espresso and ICAN about private schools/nurseries

IME the private nursery ds attended was old fashioned, ill informed and low-class.

His state pre-school and infants have been far more professional and more nurturing. I wholeheartedly agree that state may be where you get more help; and it will be free. Of course it's not all roses, lots of kids don't get needs met but IME there is a fundamental professionalism. And staff have to be qualified, another thing that can surprisingly be absent from the private sector.

I am sure you will find a lovely setting where the staff will appreciate and nurture your lovely little boy - good luck