Single sex education

[MollieO]

This in the Times yesterday.

I'm not one for stereotyping but as the mum of a 4 yr old boy I have seen a definite difference in learning styles between him and his girl playmates.

MollieO,

Interesting read.

My ds is in a boys prep school. Lots of sport, outside play and, although it's pretty disciplined, there is plenty of latitiude when it come to 'boy behaviour and letting off steam'. His school is popular with parents of very lively intelligent, boys. I sometimes wonder how many of these boys would be mis-diagnosed with ADHD if in a co-ed state school.

I'm not saying co-ed classes don't work for boys. It depends on the teacher's understanding and expectations. For example, I hate to hear of boys being denied play-time because of 'bad behaviour' in class. Some teachers have no idea what is going on in young boys heads and bodies

We've tried both and found that the single sex education works best for our DC - they can irritate and be irritated by the opposite sex out of school

I was in single sex ed from 13yrs to 18yrs. Best thing ever!! No distracting boys that had been in previous school, so could actually concentrate. Was also good not to have stereotyping that I find naturally occurs in mixed schools - e.g. girls choosing sewing/cooking and boys choosing woodwork. In girls school, all on offer so you choose what want to do, not what your friends are doing. Also, we got better careers advice and it was always possible to spot a girl (or ex-pupil) of our school due to the confidence that came from being there. We had no discipline policies as, although we ran riot sometimes, we were treated like 'ladies' and given the responsibility to behave appropriately - was a state school, not finishing school though! There was a boys equivalent the other side of town and they had strict detention policies, had 'study classes' instead of the 'free periods' that we had. They also had strict dress codes for the 6th form, unlike us.

Have two boys, one in a state co-ed, the other in a single sex prep. Latter understands boys MUCH better. They do not expect boys to behave like girls, whereas the feedback for the child in the co-ed is very much tha the should behave more like a girl
Child in single sex school is not a lonely nerd scared of girls, he mixes with friends' sisters, his own cousins, and has friends who are girls @ scouts (yes!), youth club, sports clubs he belongs to.

Hi Mollie, yes, I read that, too and wanted to start a thread. There's also the other issue with girls being primed for languages, arts, etc and not given the chance to excel in physics, maths, etc because boys are better at that... I don't know if it's true, I've never been in single sex ed but am considering it for our child.

Anyone else who can share their experiences? I'm being nosy

Its a good article.

I especially agree with the point that boys only read if they have to. Both DS1 (9) and DS2 (7) had that attitude and we had to find 'boy' books that they found interesting as the article says. Luckily we had a very wise headmistress who knew that and worked with us and the class teacher. Once we had that sussed it was plain sailing and they did very well at reading.

Th other thing I would say about boys that is different form girls even at a very early age is a boy finds it hard ot learn if he has not had enough excercise. A good but well behaved and positive run around settles their minds for learning.

That said I am against single sex boys schools as I went to one and I just think it does not prepare boys properly for the modern world of shared responsibility for bringing up a family and equal opportunity for men and women in work and society.

Frankly a whole load of boys together can behave like complete animals. I do not agree with the point about play fighting at all. It just leads to real fighting and complete chaos with the oldest and biggest dominatng the younger and smaller.

Ds (in junior's) has been struggling academically (immaturity); otoh I think he has benefited socially from having to learn to work with children of both sexes. I'd say for him the benefits outweigh the drawbacks.

Dd does well at her mixed school and also seems to enjoy having both boys and girls around.

Interesting POV BetaDad. What would you suggest for boys in co-ed schools then if the teacher doesn't seem to get it? I'm just curious, you seem to have first hand experience and didn't like single sex ed.

That is quite a tough question. I think it does come down to the school and its ethos and methods rather than the individual teacher or even the sex of the teacher.

For example I know of a 'boys only' Prep school that has a wonderful way of dealing with boys and they have a 50:50 proportion of men:women teachers who all really understand boys.

On the other hand our DS1 and DS2 have always been at Prep school where they have been in an extreme minority with girls outnumbering them at well over 8:1 and yet they both do extremely well again with a 100% women teachers most with little experience of teaching boys (as it was a girls only prep up until a few years ago).

I do not have experience of state schools with our kids but I went to a state primary and there the old headmaster was great beleiver in getting boys outside and giving them a ood run round to get their minds straight. He was extremely strict with boys and absolutely abhored animal behaviour by boys and especially fighting.

I have 5 DS & 1 DD.

The youngest boys 15,13,&12 are at local co-ed comps. I did consider an all girls school for DD at 11 but in the end she also went co-ed. I never even considered single sex for the boys. Firstly the single sex state schools are all several miles away in the nearest city. The only ones in the county are private and very academically selective. Wouldn't send them there either ....but that's another story!

At primary age all mine went to the local village primary. We were I realise very lucy there to have an excellent HT (male) and 2 very good male teachers. The 5 women teachers were OK as well! I'm sure more male teachers would make a big differce.
Also I think boys now start formal schooling too young. I have 3 summer born boys. They all struggled in the early years. They were not ready for formal schooling and should have been jumping in puddles not being sat at table with ORT.

I was in a single sex school from 11-18 (and in a single sex college after that!) It suited me down to the ground and I am 100% sure I would not have acheived as much academically in a mixed environment. That said, I would never choose it for DS(6) - he would hate it (yes he does fight/run around with his friends who are boys, but is also counted as a 'best friend' by most of the girls, and loves reading), and I will reserve judgement on DD but right now I doubt it.

As with all things, it depends on the child.

The main worry I had with the all boys state school was when my PFB DS was 11 was its reputation as a 'hard' school. Fine if a lad played football and electric guitar, but not so good if he played tennis and the flute.

4/5 of DS1s classmates from primary did start at single sex, but 2 switched to local co-ed early in year 7. I think the main problem was the travelling but bullying was also an issue.

Also my view of all boys schooling is obviously coloured by the men I've met who went to single sex schools. I suppose I first came in contact at 14/15 but managing to pass myselfs off as 17/18. They really didn't treat girls as equals in any way.

This was decades ago I know, but DD and her friends still think boys only schooling does make a difference to how they interact with females later in life.

I have tried to imagine just how much female contact my 15,13,12 year old DS would have if they were not classmates. The answer is very little.

They have 1 sister but she is now grown up and lives away. She was also at university while they were growing up.

They have 4 female cousins all older who they see rarely.

They are members of cricket club....no girls.

They are members of tennis club....no girls their age.I am surprised, but around here no girls interested in tennis.

They went/are going through scouting.... no girls there.Guiding holding firm here!

DS3 is in Air Training Corps....Yes mixed. He would meet girls.....he would even have to salute some of them!

But on the whole my DS would not mix with girls if they were not educated with them.This can't be good for youngmen in the 21st cent. surely.
As it is they do mix daily at school and 15 year old is starting mixing more outside school.
13 & 12 year olds would only be interested in a girl if she played cricket.

My ds's best friend at nursery was a girl so I had reservations about choosing single sex schooling for him. I chose what I considered was the best school for him and it happened to be a boys school. The fact that it was single sex actually put me off a bit but I preferred it to the other schools I looked at. He is in reception and thoroughly enjoying himself. Developmentally it is exactly the right environment for him. I did the school visits when he was 3 and honestly I didn't think (at that age) there was much of a difference between boys and girls. 18 months later there seems to be a big difference and I'm pleased that ds is where he is.

notagrannyyet - I agree with you."Also my view of all boys schooling is obviously coloured by the men I've met who went to single sex schools. I suppose I first came in contact at 14/15 but managing to pass myselfs off as 17/18. They really didn't treat girls as equals in any way."

That was my experience of being a boy at a 11 - 18 all boy senior school. I never met girls and it took me a while to get used to them. I have heard the same from girls ata ll girls senior school.

Not a good healthy thing for society in my view. I stil meet men who came out of single sex shools and went to work in male domintaed environemnts like the City and I often find their lack of perspective and civility quite frightening. That why I want my boys at a mixed school.

Isn't also up to us as parents to ensure we raise boys who can contribute appropriately to society?

Of course we have a vital role as parents - but its hard to send a consistent message to them if they are getting the opposite message from peer pressure all day at school.

Ds's school provides 'co-ordinated' education. Which is probably the best of both worlds. Single sex education at separate sites for boys and girls but school trips and activities together.

I went to single sex girls school and we didn't treat boys as equals .... because .... duh ..... they're not .......!!!!

I hardly met a man apart from my dad til Uni and I can't say it helped me understand the species - will be sending my dc to mixed most definitely

I have all boys so I wanted them at a mixed school-girls are quite civilizing!

Oh I was going to say boys are civilising, pisces. But then I have a dd.

It's ironic that in a survey I cannot quote - therefore you can challenge its validity- that 'parents want an all girls school for their DDs but a coed school for their DSs!'

I must say I was disturbed by a friend's single sexed prepped DSs, 9 and 11, who announced to MY DSs, state juniors, (8 and 10) that 'women are OK to marry but they shouldn't work' ! In the 21st century! Hope they're not imagining daddy's choice of job (banking) will be the answer to their financial dreams... fwiw that particular school has ruffled a lot of feathers by stealthily introducing GURLS as of now, albeit largely segregated with full integration happening in 3 years...!

I went to a girls grammar. I think it was fine for 11-16. Beyond that it was a bit freaky. It becomes even less 'natural' to segregate sexes by then, But my greatest discovery was how INEPT the boys at the boys grammar were! TERRIFIED of women practically to a man (18)! So we went out with the boys from the Tech.

And another small point, I do think we, at the grammar, were sort of taught to be a bit contemptuous of mere boys. We really were quite up ourselves! I do think that the evidence is there that boys and girls DO do better academically when separated- but at what cost? Both genders feeling the other isn't worthy? Surely the balance would be found in a 'good' comprehensive that could afford to separate them out for certain 'core subjects'- like boys to benefit in English and French, girls in maths and physics- and then reintegrate them for other 'humanities'.

They tried this out, but only in maths and science in DS3s first 2 years at comp. It is a large school 400-500 per year.

For maths and science there were single sex class with, where possible male teachers for the boys and females for the girls. They only did it for a 2 year trial and then changed back to mixed sex classes.

faraday - I also find a lot of parents with DDs like single sex but a lot of parents with DS like mixed.

I think perhaps the best of all worlds might be the diamond structure that Leeds Grammar have is a good compromise. Junior years are mixed as are 6th form but the other years are separately taught but mix occassionally for choir and other events.