Will any teachers own up to becoming teachers for the hours/holidays, rather than because they desperately wanted to teach?

[weddingdress]

When I finished my A-levels I was going to be a teacher, but I took a job in industry for the summer holidays (they didn't know I didn't plan to stay) and by Sept I was enjoying it, I'd been promoted and was earning good money, so I never went to Uni.

I am still with the same company 20 years later and have had a reasonably successful and rewarding career. They sponsored my p-t degree, so I could do a PGCE.

Since I had DS1 8 years ago, I've been working 2 days a week. 2 10/12 hour days plus commute and I enjoy it a lot, but there's no way I can do it full-time and unless I do, there will be no further progression for me. I just can't see a world where I am prepared to do those hours day in day out while I have a family at home and by the time they've gone, frankly I'll be almost retired.

I enjoy my job, but am a little frustrated when I see less capable full timers working above me and I can't see me doing the same job until I retire, so I've been considering having another look at my original career choice.

But, although I think I could be a decent teacher (have volunteered in school, with cubs and children's nature charity) I can't say I feel any desperate calling to do it. Before I get flamed, I really don't think it will be an easy option, My Mum and sister are teachers and I know the hours they put in, but they are at home in school hols and by around 5pm, even if they then work into the evening. On the days I work, I rarely see the DC's at all.

Have you considered asking about working term time only? I work in a male-dominated industry in a job which everyone apart from me does fulltime, but I did manage to get my employers to agree to term time only on a trial basis, and 6 years later am still doing it! I do work @ home amd take calls, field emails, etc during the hols so do not become incommunicado, but it mean the dc do not have to go to holiday clubs unless they want to , they can have friends round, I can ferry them places, we can do stuff together. If you prepare your pitch carefuly you may be able to make a case. I had used all my annual 4 wks statutory unpaid paretal leave in the previous years, and it had made no difference to my job, so I was able to demonstrate that the addtional leave would not have a negative effect on my colleagues workload or ability to reach my targets. My boss was initially resistent, but agreed in my appraisal the folowig year that it had worked extremely well and that I seemed more motivated as a result.

'They are doing it precisely because of the hours and holidays rather than any "calling" or real desire to be a teacher. '

I kno a fair few of thse; they were on my Uni course and as its a shortage subject it seemed an easy ooption.

Of 5 people who are training now I'd lay money one oly will survive three years. there was one chap I knew could't hack it, he wanted a reliable income. He lasted 6 weeks of the PGCE.

I think there is some flexibility such as working from home to mark sometimes etc but that is counterbaanced by it being a job you have to suit. I've done shit jobs, dangerous ones as well but mostly anyone could have done them (bar the homestart one maybe). To be a good teacher you have to want to be there; kids can see right through anything else.

DH does it for the holidays.
It is a Godsend tbh,

Everything BoffinMum said is so, so true.

If you want my views, well, you might get more time with your children if...

• You get a job in a 'coasting' school (not the case with most comprehensives, more likely to be 'good' grammars resting on their laurels) where little is expected of you in terms of planning, preparation and R&D. The only teachers I know who arrive at 8.30 and leave at 3.30 work in these schools.

-You are lucky enough to get a job in a school that is close to your home - because guess what? Teachers commute too! I have colleagues who live 30 and 40 miles from the school.

-You don't teach any exam groups - all that coursework needs marking and it can't be done properly in short bursts so ends up being done in the holidays. I spend at least half my holidays marking or going in to school, leaving me with about 6 / 7 weeks proper holiday, not much more than frineds in other professions.

So, if you have a coasting grammar school on your doorstep and you can guarantee that you will only teach year 7 and 8, and you KNOW you will be able to get a job at said school, then go for it. And make sure you teach something like art where you don't need to do much marking. Definitely do NOT chose English. Fab subject but the marking! My God!

I taught in FE for many years. I was involved in mentoring trainee teachers and could generally work out within a week how long their careers would be. Those who came into teaching with the idea it was a family friendly job with long holidays generally didn't last much beyond two years.

I did manage to get much of the summer holidays off. This was only because I was extremely efficient and ruthless when it came to getting stuff finished. By all means give it a go, but go into it with your eyes open. You will be abused and (possibly) assulted. You will spend the vast amount of your day keeping records and proving how you meet an ever shifting set of targets. Nothing you do will ever be good enough for a surprisingly large number of pupils and parents. You will get grief from parents, pupils, Senior management OFSTED and the public for things you have no control over. You never, ever stop being a teacher. I find it hard to do my shopping without being earbashed by ex students or parents (not always in a bad way mind you) and the paperwork never stops. On the upside, it's nice seeing someone you taught happy and doing well for themselves in life.

I've left teaching and now work in a university doing a teaching related job. I leave work at 5pm. I get to go to my daughter's Christmas play. I get to take advantage of cheap flights during term time. I still get to teach, but with none of the downsides.

I do not envy teachers. I could not do the job. It is too relentless.

What I would like to see is much more regular 8.30 - 4.30 p.m. hours for teachers. No marking or other activities at all after school but much more 'normal' business length school holidays with a slower pace in the school day.

I know teachers don't just work in class contact time. I know there is paperowrk and planning to be done. But I do find it very hard to believe that, after the first frantic year or so of learning their trade, they really spend 3 hours a night, most weekends and most of their 6 week summer holidays on it.

I don't mind them having long holidays - but I do get a bit pissed off when they go on about how much they need the holiday. Yes, the job is stressful, but try being a casualty doctor, a nurse in an intensive care unit, or an air traffic controller! Or a police officer or a fire fighter.

The reason why the work continues like it does seeker is because the syllabus for exams change so often. As dooes paperwork reuquirements, formats of reporting and recording - you name it. Even the format of lesson planning changes frequently.

So when you think you have everything sussed, they go change it adn you have to rewrite everything.

And some work just has to be done outside of class time - marking, prep, display work, ordering materials, writing reports, etc.

I quit teaching because the hours I was working were totally unreasonable.

I'd be at school an hour before the bell went. I'd usually work through most of lunch either supervising in the playground, catching up on marking, organising the classroom for the afternoon's activities etc and I wouldn't leave school before 5pm prepping next day's workload, doing some marking etc.

Holidays? Yeah, school holidays are great except you spend your Easter holidays writing end of year reports and your October week writing interim reports. Christmas you'll usually get your two weeks, granted. For half the Summer holidays I'd be prepping the following year's workload, topics and set work before starting back a week before the pupils in order to set up the classroom, organise jotters, assign seating, read files etc.

I spent seven years at university to do a job earning £6k less per annum than if I had taken a graduate-level trainee position at Asda. Absolutely brutal, and this is before I even start on having to deal with parents!

but we arent paid for the holidays you know?
they only pay us for so many weeks a year - just spread it out.

I think that if you want term time working then there are now plenty of jobs which are term time only. For example I work as an ICT technician and I have 11 weeks holiday a year, although the pay is awful. Other jobs include cover supervisors, learning mentors, family support workers, extended schools coordinators, catering staff, admin staff, science technicians to name a handful of the many support jobs.

However there are plenty of good jobs for IT professionals and when my family are old enough I will move back into the private sector. For prehaps I can go and work for county.

However I do not have to do any work outside school. Unlike a teacher I can do flexi time, which helps with nightmares like a child being sick. It helps that I do not have such major responsility as teacher.

At the moment the teachers where I work are all working hard on writing IEPs. Where as I am surfing mumsnet. I spent half term having fun with my son, many teachers spent half term writing reports.

If the kids are annoying I can go and hide in my office. A teacher can't. If a kid starts to kick off I can walk in the other direction, but teachers have to deal with it.

Unless you actually have a vocation to teach then teaching is a no brainer. If you are serious about wanting to teach then I suggest that you get some experience in a school first as a TA, or failing that, a volenteer, an exam invigilator or any other sort of job. It would make it much easier to get on to the graduate teaching programme, and unlike a PGCE student you would get paid for training.

I don't work full time as a teacher because it is too stressful, and I am lucky enough not to.
When I have I have been like Blottedcopy book. Leave home at 7.30, earlier if I can manage it. Take 20 mins to eat lunch-stay until about 5pm. Cook meal,see DCs (and try to be pleasant!)and then do school work. Work all one day at the weekend. Yes, the holidays are long but the last week of the summer holiday is spent in school getting the classroom ready and 2 weeks are spent doing all the long term, medium term plans.(it would be easier if you are repeating a year). Summer half term is report writing. Planning needs to go into other holidays (but not as much as the summer holiday).This is primary without a post of responsibility. If you are a subject coordinator or SENCO or team leader you can add up the hours on that.You also think about it all the time so if you are visiting a museum etc you spend your time thinking 'that might come in handy when I do Tudors' etc. When I talk to other teachers about the work load they all say the same "Tell me about it"!!
Get into school a lot first and see if you really want to do it first.

"I know there is paperwork and planning to be done. But I do find it very hard to believe that, after the first frantic year or so of learning their trade, they really spend 3 hours a night, most weekends and most of their 6 week summer holidays on it."

I'm in my 12th year of teaching now. Sunday night I worked from 4-11pm marking. Taught all day today (9-5, 1 hour for lunch, which I used to photocopy resources and finish marking). I will work to gone midnight tonight - planning and marking etc. Tomorrow I will teach from 9am to 6pm, and then interview students until 7.30pm. I will then come home (after not seeing my children all day), relax for half an hour, and then work again to about 11pm. Wednesday I will teach until 12pm with one hour free period (which is free actually!) I will then be interviewing students until 5pm. I will have Wednesday night off work.

I will also work at least one other night this week, possibly two more nights as his is quite a busy week and then will relax until Saturday morning when I will do 2 more hours whilst my daughter is at ballet and then start again at about 4pm on Sunday afternoon.

This is my routine every week (although I am not always interviewing - although then I would be doing other things instead). I am employed to work three days a week. I regularly do 61 hours a week, despite the fact I am only employed to teach 14 hours! I hhave been doing this for the past 12 years. But I teach 'A' level, so it is very heavy in terms of marking and planning. I also love my work. I certainly wouldn't do it for the free time. Lol!

Sorry, I will work at least one more night this week, possibly two nights in total.

The holidays are the best part!

I get 18 weeks per year . I feel that I can live a double life - my term time WOHM, and my holiday SAHM.

"I know there is paperwork and planning to be done. But I do find it very hard to believe that, after the first frantic year or so of learning their trade, they really spend 3 hours a night, most weekends and most of their 6 week summer holidays on it."

Get a support job in a school and decide for yourself if the myth about teachers having a 50 hour week is true.

I can confirm that its a total utter myth that teachers work a 50 hour week .... its more like 60 to 70 hours at times!

i don't think any of us are saying that teaching is the only stressful job, or even the most stressful job, but i am astounded to hear of a staff car park empty by 4.30 or 5, twice a week i had meetings that went on later than that, as did most of the staff.
and if you're in a tough school, the actual teaching can be extremely stressful.
to put it in context, i found that after having dd, (difficult pregnancy, 3 operations in less than a year, ill after the pregnancy, NO help, not even from dh, em cs,you name, i had a problem with it) that my mat leave was a rest after the rigours of teaching. having a newborn & being ill was easy going.
so, no, i doubt if anyone actually goes into teaching & lasts if they're after short hours & long holidays.
i averaged 50 hrs a week AFTER dd was born, i did more than that before hand.
and being a teacher guarantees you will be completely and utterly excluded from your own child's school life,

i think we've answered the op's Q

yes, I wanted to help which was the main consideration for me. I wanted to make a difference.

I still do and are a governor for a very difficult school and are re-training to be an ed psych whilst I'm off with my 2 - soon to be 3 - children.

Love this question - yer, when I taught I was always in school by 8.30am and home by 4pm!

I now have a child and have no intention of going back into teaching (primary) until he's at least got through primary himself. The job dominated my whole life and the holidays in no way made up for it.

There are plenty of other jobs that you could go into that will let you spend more time with your kids - teaching ain't one of them.

I trained to teach because I wanted to teach. Now I don't teach, I push paper and meet targets, so I'm off.

I supply

it is the dogs nuts
you walk in

and walk out

piscesmoon - loved your point about constantly thinking about how you might teach something/use something as a resource. As an English teacher, I find myself automatically planning lessons on books I'm reading for leisure - OK if it's the Janet Smiley I'm reading at the mo, weirder if it/s the latest Jackie Collins!

I think we all do it slayerette-I admired someone's space display last week and the teacher said that it was wrapping paper she found on a day out and her DCs all groaned and said 'can't you forget your job for once'!

I think we enjoy the holidays and see them as a bonus. Teaching is to me the most fantastic job in the world, mosts days at half three I will sit and think Wow what a great day and I have been paid! You may go into teaching and absolutely love it like most of us do. I would hate to put anyone off being a teacher.

Seeker I have taught for probably about 6 or seven years and regularly do more than 3 hours a night. I tend to get up about five am, do an hour or so before gettng picked up. Do an hour of admin in the morning in school. I then have coaching sessions, clubs training most evenings and am in school until about 5pm. I am home for just after half five. I always need a lie in when I get in ( not had it tonight and am regretting it already) then half an hour for tea. Then work on a good night until about 10pm. This weekend I had so much on I had to cancel my birthday arrangements and worked until the early hours Sat and Sun. But you do not have to do that, I have a very heavy timetable, 10 gcse classes and an a level plus a top set in every year group. I know teachers who do much less but they tend not to get promoted ( although that may be an issue) they tend to have more problems with the kids as they are not on top of things. But this is not always the case. I get a huge buzz from my job which is why I work so hard, I love to walk into a class knowing they have a fantastic lesson planned.

But as Science teacher says I can almost be a SAHM during the holidays. The summer holidays are magical.

If you are thinking about teaching I would say give it a go you may just fall in love with it.

pisces moon that drives my dp mad, although he is getting as bad as me and will pick things up for school.