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Original poster

Son cannot get a place at his Brothers school.

55 replies

Cymba · 06/03/2009 11:17

Hello, have browsed here for some time but never joined. I just wanted a little bit of advice so thought I would post.

My youngest son goes to private nursary as I am doing a degree and my husband works full time, just before Christmas it suddenly occured to me that he may not get a letter (like my eldest child did) about school admissions as he attends a private nursary. Sure enough I ring the LEA to find the dead line was a week earlier.

So now my older childs reception class is full (30 places) and my youngest has no school place at all yet as they apparently didnt recieve my appliaction (I am told this wouldn't have made a difference once its late, its late).

As the class size is 30 legally they can't take anymore children so basically I have been told even if I appeal I will lose.

I will appeal on the grounds that it is psyhically impossible for me to get my children to 2 seperate schools on time and that my oldest child has SEN and moving schools would cause serious disruption to him.

Just looking for any advice on this, thanks

OP posts:
mazzystartled · 06/03/2009 12:39

You may have to take it on the chin re not getting a letter. No point getting in a huff about it if its not what they do. You won't be the only person it's happened to.

I would mount a many-pronged attack then
Apply to the LEA
Appeal to the LEA
Apply to the school (in our area waiting lists are held by the school if applications are outside the usual process.)
Charm offensive on the Head
My neighbour literally rang the Head up every week to ask where his dd was on the list. They'd been away in South America for 3 months and missed the deadline. His persistence paid off.

Good luck

KingCanuteIAm · 06/03/2009 12:43

Was there nothing on your older childs newsletters? I know our school always put it on at least 2 newsletters, one before they open for applications and one about 1 week before the closing date. I would check with your sons school because, if it was, you will look a bit silly going into appeal with that as part of your argument!

pooka · 06/03/2009 12:55

King Canute - lots of areas don't have catchment areas per se. Basically, the school offers places (via the lea) according to the criteria, and one year the area covered could be xm and the next year y metres.

For example, local school covered area of nearly 800m one year, but only 480 the next. Because there were more siblings and more app;ications from houses close the the school.

I also thought that if a class has more than 30 they can't have 1 teacher and 2 TA's - they would have to employ a whole new teacher (qualified) so that there would not be more than 30 children per teacher (TAs not being counted). At least that was my impression...

pooka · 06/03/2009 12:56

YEs - our school newsletter had one notice when the forms were available and then another reminder as the deadline approached.

UnquietDad · 06/03/2009 13:02

At KS1 they are legally limited to 30 places in each class unless there is more than one teacher. You will need to apply, be turned down, and appeal. Good luck. You can win appeals at KS1 even if your child is the 31st or 32nd child in the class - we did (It took two goes).

Original poster
Cymba · 06/03/2009 13:38

UnquietDad thankyou knowing that it is at least possible to win is good to know, can I ask what the circumstances where or at least if they were at all similar to mine?

OP posts:
clam · 06/03/2009 14:03

What a nightmare. I do feel for you. But how did you miss all the reminders/posters etc.. Particularly from your older son's school? How come everyone else knew?

MollieO · 06/03/2009 14:04

Our LEA requires you to tell them you have children who are looking for school places, which I did when ds was 3. We received nothing via our nursery and did receive an application pack a year early and again for this year. I applied on line last year but didn't submit so this year I was locked out of applying on line (not sure why). I ended up not bothering and choosing a private school instead, mainly as I had no desire for ds to attend our catchment school and little expectation of him getting a place elsewhere.

UnquietDad · 06/03/2009 14:13

Cymba - we applied and got a place for DD in Reception at School X, around this time in 2004. However, we then found our ideal house in the location we'd been looking in for ages, and moved in the summer of '04, so had to start thinking then about the school situation - only moved a couple of miles away but that presented a logistical problem with the school run and, in any case, we wanted School Y, the one nearest to our new house, because it was a) nearer and b) we liked it better.

We applied to transfer, and were rejected on grounds of numbers. This set the wheels in motion for an appeal in Autumn '04, which we lost. However, we lost because we were not well-enough informed about the process, and I made sure that would change for the second appeal.

In the meantime, of course, DD had to start at School X near to our old house in Jan '05, and we had to cope with a ludicrous transport/timing issue for two terms.

We appealed again as soon as we could (you can't appeal more than once in a school year) and we won, and got the place at School Y in the middle of the Autumn Term of 2005 (her Y1).

Hope this helps!

Ben Rooney's book "How To Win Your School Appeal" is good.

Being a smidgeon sexist for a minute, I'm sure it didn't harm our case that two of the panel were women the second time round and DW was visibly upset about the situation (turning on the tears a bit doesn't do any harm!). If one of you can be the "calm, rational" one and the other can play the "emotional" one it may be a good route to go down... play it carefully though...

Original poster
Cymba · 06/03/2009 14:17

Thanks again UnquietDad I will certainly look into getting that book and make sure I am prepared for the process if it comes to that.

OP posts:
rolledhedgehog · 06/03/2009 14:28

Did your son's school not put anything in the newsletters about the application process for siblings. Bit slack if they didn't but horribly slack on your part if they did and you did not read them!

UnquietDad · 06/03/2009 14:32

Forgot to add - check on your Local Authority website what the criteria for admission are. Or phone Primary Admissions and ask. Because most LAs rank siblings at or near the top. Having a sibling at the school already should be a massive thing swaying it in your favour.

SoupDragon · 06/03/2009 14:33

Get on the waiting list for the school. As a sibling, I think your son would be near the top. Lots drop out havnig either accepted another school or chosen a private school or simply moved out of the area.

UnquietDad · 06/03/2009 14:34

Although some authorities no longer do waiting lists as they "create an expectation"

Peachy · 06/03/2009 14:39

'SEN will work for the child that does have SEN, but not necessarily for a sibling as the child with SEN doesn't have to have his brother in the same school. '

Actually thats not quite right; as the child with SEN will be affected regardless and you cann neither geta child to school late nor leave him unattended (or leave a reception age pupil alone). On that basis we have transport for ds3 tos chool which we would have ahd to get a sattement provision for otherwise. Both kids are SN but it is accepted that as ds1 is statemented he cannot be left anywhere whilst ds3 is dropped off, and it would be detrimenatal to ds1's or ds3'seducation for them to be permanently late. The fact ds3 has sn irs irrelevant in that, ISWIM?

We got letters for the older two in Somerset but nothing here,fortuantely as ds3 was trasnferring from school nursery to school it was ahndled by them.

Peachy · 06/03/2009 14:44

Cymba talk to Uni

Ours had a start tme of 9.30 until my yr 3 when they changed it to 9- impossible as I had 32 children to srop off at that time. The Tutors quite happily allowed me to roll in 15 minutes late each morning; tbh it was before a lot of the younger ones turned in anyway.

pooka · 06/03/2009 14:50

32 children AND a degree. You are a cyborg Peachy!

Peachy · 06/03/2009 15:06

Unusaually this is a time when I get to say Oh no not that many stresses LOL

mummydoc · 06/03/2009 15:45

i cannot understand this no letter thing ? my dd1 attends private school and has done from recep, dd2 attends kindergarten attatched to said private school and always has done and yet we still got pack and letter and form insisting we put down which school she was goign to attend if she was not going into the state system/lottery. if no letter goes out then how to LEA know of children whose parents are not sending them to school or HEdding - surely there must be "lost" children out not being educated for other reasons some of which i am sure ar enot savoury.

happywomble · 06/03/2009 16:16

mummydoc - there is definitely no letter in Surrey. Don't know where op is from.

Sidge · 06/03/2009 16:29

It depends on LEAs - ours does not send out letters but there are posters all over the place regarding school admissions - nurseries, pre-schools, schools, libraries etc.

And depending which LEA you are in depends on the application procedure - in ours you can't apply directly to a school at all, it's all co-ordinated through the LEA. So you would have to submit your application for the school(s) you want and wait to hear. If you have missed the deadline you may get put at the bottom of the list unless you fulfil certain criteria our LEAs webpage states "Applications received after the closing date will be considered after all on-time applications, unless there are exceptional circumstances that warrant consideration."

piscesmoon · 06/03/2009 16:42

The problem is that the school is full, if the other parents have been told they can't take away a place. I would get on the waiting list-some may have accepted a place but won't take it and some may move.

hifi · 06/03/2009 17:03

dd reception has 3 classes, children who were in the 30s on the list got in . put him on the waiting list.

LIZS · 06/03/2009 17:13

We didn't get any letter or pack for either Year 3 or Year 7 applications as dc are at independent school(Surrey). Is the private nursery attached to a school ? Unfortunately it sounds as if you just took your eye off the ball. The LEA do have to allocate him a place somewhere, but it just may not be where you choose . They cannot force you to take it although he has to be educated full time once he is 5 so you may or may not be able to keep him where he is until a place acceptable to you comes up. Your best bet is to go on the waiting list and as a sibling he should be fairly high priority. There is usually some movement before September.

clam · 06/03/2009 18:56

But this all sounds a bit hit-and-miss on the part of the LEAs. They can't just whack up a couple of posters here and there and expect that everyone will get the message. I'm slightly to admit it but, having gone through this 4 times now, (2x primary and secondary) I have no recollection as to how I knew the forms were due. Although I am a teacher. Have a vague notion that the GP rolls were used, but in DS's year for primary, they had to amend that because some people had got missed out that way.
I think I'd be investigating how I could use that in any appeal, i.e. the LEA have been negligent in some way? But others may have more knowledge than I. I do know, though, that you only have a cat in Hell's chance round here of succeeding in an appeal if you can prove the LEA have made a cock-up.