What three things would you change about schools in general / your child's school?

[Racingsnake]

Everyone seems to like to moan about teachers / school / education, but no-one ever says how they would do it better. What 3 things would you change?

Here are mine:

1. Start formal education at 6 not 4
2. Halve class sizes. Whatever the gov't says about class sizes having no effect on chn, I am sure I would teach 16 better than 32
3. Reliable ICT that works, so that the teacher can use it to open up the world to the classroom, entertain and inspire

gosh fircone I had completely misread your post and thought you were being sarcastic!

Then I remembered your name and remembered you saying about part-timing all year and realised I must have got the wrong end of the stick!

What is the year group list? I had thought you were saying he was 4th best at reading/writing or something like that....

It was a year performance list. He came 4th in the mock Sats overall. I was quite astonished to be shown the list, as can you imagine how the parents of the child who was, say, number 87 on the list must have reacted? (Although presumably the teacher had some sensitivity.)

I wasn't complaining that he was 4th, but that children 1, 2 and 3 were all born in September, and that says something. Ok, so ds is bright, but what of the average, or less than average child born in the summer?

In the 11+ marks are added on for younger entrants, so why not add marks for GCSEs/A Levels (hopeful emoticon).

Well personally, I couldn't care less about the year performance thing. By the time they get to A-levels, the age difference will be less noticeable.

But what did worry me was that ds (another summer baby) had his confidence a bit dented by not being able to do the things the others could. That, I think, is why summer babies tend to do less well throughout their school career: by the time they get to where it shouldn't matter, they've given up on themselves so it still matters.

And the maturity thing would worry me too.

I like the Scandinavian idea that parents can choose one of two possible years of entry for their children.

Oh I see fircone. Yes, it's very old-fashioned to have a list like that isn't it? But it sounds as though he's one of the lucky August ones in that he's clearly ready to access the curriculum. hurray! maybe the 4th position will help him have a desire to strive? I always came top (September birthday, incredibly immature emotionally) and never really learnt to strive at the things that require more than mere facility/ability. So for instance I was shocked as a teenager to realise that people who actually practised their violins were now much much better than I was!

Kids who are already "in the system" may benefit a bit from the Jim Rose report I think on things like adjusting marks.........you might want to take a look.

Cory, yes, my concerns match yours. It's the dent in confidence that stops many of them from catching up. DS2 has a language delay of 12-18 months I suspect so may still seem like a younger one. Though his spatial reasoning is fabulous.

I don't think that holding some summer borns back a year is about being top of the class. People want to do it so that the child is happy in infants. What is the point of teaching a child to write if they have no pen control whatsoever.

I am sure that if some summer born boys started school a year later there would be fewer behaviour problems and fewer children needing to be on the SEN register.

What ReallyTired says. There was no way ds could hold a pen in Infants, so all he got from that was the feeling that "I am not very clever". It was a waste of time, like trying to teach a 6 month old to walk.

"like trying to teach a 6 month old to walk"

exactly.

Allowing a bit of flexiblity in the system would increase the chances of all children getting 5 good GCSEs including Maths and English.

There would also be more resources for the September girls who are top of the class as their teacher would not be attempting the impossible of teaching August born boys how to write. There would be less discipline problems from children who are just too immature for school.

A very advanced September child would not be bored rigid by being held back. May some very advanced children could start school early if an ed psch thought it was appriopate.

Yes, well put.

Ds couldn't hold a pencil at all for ages, and he still gets in a tangle with a pair of scissors. Mind you, I have the sneaking suspicion that even if he'd been born on September 1st he would still have struggled with anything involving use of implements.

well put, cory, that is, for the 'teaching six month old to walk' point.

More resources for September girls?! Give me a break.

Reallytired is right about september girls you know. In our reception class, the TAs were completely occupied just keeping the summer-borns happy for the whole of the first half-term.

I agree with all those who say there should be more flexibility in the system - particularly for August borns to delay the start as long as they are allowed to stay with that year group wherever they go. The flexibilty should also be there for September borns to start early if they are ready but not just to get childcare early iyswim.
However, I get very nervous when people start talking about adjusting marks dependent on birth month. My nephew sat 11+ style tests for selective schools and had his marks 'docked' because he was a December birthday - his friend got higher marks simply because he was born in April. They have had exactly the same amount of education time.At that age things have evened out.
We don't have selection here but my dd would lose out big time on that system as she is a September born.The fact that she should have been born in December would not be taken into account. I get a little narked when people say ''oh your dd is a September born'' as if that's the only reason she does well(academically) when in fact she has had to overcome being born prematurely which has held her back in PE and with things like pen-control. But if I mention this it is somehow seen as making excuses.
Back to the op: I would have smaller classes and give schools more disciplinary powers. I would get rid of the ludicrously overblown ofsted prep and just 'mystery shop' schools but in a very thorough 2-3 day visit of sitting in on lessons and studying the data readily available. NOT having reams of data prepared which isn't part of regular record keeping.

Sorry by 'mystery shop' I don't mean a secret visit as obviously that is impossible but unanounced visits - like the retail trade uses to monitor staff performance.

Actually I believe this is more the norm now. Schools get a day's warning or so, and the Ofsted inspection is shorter and sharper.

A good education system should cater for all children, including september born girls. If children get an age/development appriopate education then a lot of discipline problems would sort themselves out. This would help all children.

I think that great care needs to be taken about advanced children starting school early. Many parents are completely and utterly deluded about their children's ablities.

I also think that children who defer school should get funding for full time nursery. Especially if there is developmental delay or glue ear or deferment is recommended by a community paediatrian. (Ie. the same number of hours that would be funded if they were at school) Childcare should not be an issue when deciding the age a child enters formal education. It might be an extra expense but its nothing compared with the current cost of support immature children in school.

Fircone - the visits are still pre-anounced and result in staff working extra hours to produce all the documentation requested. Either this means that the school is able to cover up not doing things which they should be doing OR it means they are putting together documentation which isn't necessary for the day to day running of the school (I suspect the latter). My BIL is a on senior management team of a secondary school and they just had to work all week-end to prep for ofsted. They got contract cleaners in to spruce the place up. An Unanounced visit would have meant the inspector would see a truer picture.

I don't see how you can have 100% unannouced vists from OFSTED. I think the present system of short notice two day OFSTED inspections is as close as you can get to unannouced inspections.

Schools are busy places and there needs to be a balance between the needs of the chidren and the the inspection.

Yes, they can get in cleaners, but there is not a lot people can do in a weekend. Anyway OFSTED inspectors are interested in the quality of the teaching not in how clean the school is. You can't do anything about the underlying quality of teaching in 2 days.

Yes, maybe I am being unrealistic but I don't see the point of asking for a whole lot of data which isn't usually to hand. Our primary had an inspection right before Christmas - the inspector barely looked at the data,spent only half a day in the school and did not spend time in all the classes. The report was lazily written and basically a 'cut and paste' job; the only detail was where he had copied homed in on the report the school had written on itself.
I am not sure ofsted serve a good purpose. When we met the inspectors on a visit under the old system they were led by the most patronising tosser. They tick boxes which have been set up with urban schools in mind and criticise rural schools for not being multi-cultural without thinking through the relevance.
Sorry if I have taken the thread off track in a ranty manner.

We are very lucky with our school, small class sizes and heaps of outdoor space, mind you its a small village school surrounded by fields so that helps.

But the one thing I would certainly change, is for kids to start a 6. My dd is an August birthday and she is now in year 2 and only just catching up, the thing which has held her back is confidence and not being able to deal with things so well, so personally think it would have been better for her to start later.

Reallytired, I think that it's not so much that parents are deluded, more that English parents are trapped in a "sooner must be better" way of thinking. It's really hard to see your child reading at 2 or 3 and to understand that this doesn't necessarily mean she ought to be at school.

No, I do mean it when I say that parents can be deluded about their children's ablities. Its not just English parents but parents all over the world think their child is capable of more than they truely are.

Not everyone who says their child can read at 2 or 3 is telling the truth. Or their definition of reading is being able to recongise a few flash cards. Don't get me wrong I am sure there are some two year olds who have taught themselves to read, but they are rare.

I also think think social skills, emotional maturity and stamina is important. An educational pschlogists would be able assess all these things.

Well, maybe you're right ReallyTired though I confess I find it hard to say so. On the one hand many of us are saying "look, we know our child, we KNOW he's not going to be ready, we know him best". And the people with September kids say "Well I know my child best TOO and know s/he is ready to start school at 3". And I feel bad saying "Yes, but I'm right whereas you're DELUDED!".

I suppose the fact that I am backed up by paediatrician, speech therapist, nursery teacher, reception teacher and learning support teacher (!) does help my argument a bit more than "Angela's reading already, we feel very proud". But lots of parents in my position (late talker) haven't even been to a health visitor, let alone a paediatrician, so it would seem a bit hard to say you have to have an expert back you up.

I would certainly suggest that being a year too far behind is capable of doing you far more damage than being a year too far behind.

lingle, you have my sympathy. My son was very lucky in having a December birthday. He would never have cope with school as an August born.

My son was under the community paediatrian at the local child development centre for four years. He had 18 months of nhs physio, 3 years of audiology, as well as assessments by SLT and OT. Parents in our situation are not deluded, I have a box file full of lots of reports on my son's development.

I also think with more and more children going to nursery there will be the professional opinon to make such decisons. I think it should be easier to defer entry to school than to start school early.

If its any consolation my son has caught up with his peers. Although his hearing is still a bit dodgy he is happy at school. In fact our old community paediatrian thinks that my son is one of her best sucess stories.

Reallytired / lingle

I would tend to agree with you about parents potentially being deluded about thier child's abilities but then it is not always about ability. Some children are geuninely socially and emotionally more mature just as others are the opposite.

I have a very immature dd who is 17 months older than a very mature ds - strangers always think he is the older. Because of their birthdays she is 2 school years ahead of him whereas I often think they would be well off together.

There is more allowance for younger children and acceptance that they may not be ready hence they get the majority of the attnetion. The older, more mature children get very little as they are seen to be 'coping' and few teachers look at whetehr that 'coping' is actually thriving as it should be.

I think we all agree that a flexible start is the best for all children.

Reallytired on Tue 27-Jan-09 14:02:01
"I don't see how you can have 100% unannouced vists from OFSTED. I think the present system of short notice two day OFSTED inspections is as close as you can get to unannouced inspections."

Unfortunately, that still gives unscrupulous headteachers time to coach the children in what they have to say to the Ofsted inspector. As per the following conversation reported by my dd:

Head: -Well, as you know we are going to have a music inspection on Thursday and I think we need to prepare for it a little. Now you, Luke, do you enjoy music.

Luke: - No.

Head (narrowing eyes in a threatening manner): -I am disappointed in you, Luke. That is the wrong answer.

And so it carried on until they had got the right idea of what to say. And I hasten to add that there was nothing humorous or joking in the way the Head spoke: they knew they would be in trouble if they answered the wrong thing. The school got its Outstanding.

Head has now mercifully retired.