We visit a potential school and immediately decide we LOVE or HATE it. How do we KNOW?

[gaussgirl]

Serious question and not bagging anyone! I'm genuinely curious about what factors influence how one feels.

I feel I'm hopeless at it! I do have some experience: Briefly, upon arrival in the UK we visited the local, outstandingly OFSTED'ed primary- it was 4 weeks before DS1 was due to start R, thus the summer hols. We met the apparently inspirational head- and disliked him on sight! Arrogant, brusque and smug were the terms that came to mind. And the very young staff were hustling and bustling frantically about (mid summer hols!). DS1 would have gone into pole position on the waiting list, but that's not say it wouldn't have been a good choice for him WITH all those career building, over-enthusiastic young staff, eager to perform!

We then visited the next nearest school which had just the school receptionist on duty (we had no appointment, just nosing!) and she was immediately welcoming, gave us a tour, we saw the kids work as some hadn't yet been taken down etc- and chose the school there and then. We have not been disappointed BUT we visited an essentially EMPTY school! Just a building!

I'm now on the secondary hunt. But, on Open Day, you get to see the manicured version of the school- or do you? You don't really know.. One's impressions might be influenced by whether it's Y8s, Y11s or the deputy head taking you around! Are you susceptible to the soaring music and inspirational camera sweeps of the promotional video you watch in the school hall? Do you happen across a class where the naughtiest boy in the school is being bollocked by the teacher? Are you steered through Maths A, Chemistry A and are Woodwork displays the best the school has ever produced or last week's Y7 project?

Is Open Day scheduled during a time when ALL the DCs have a double lesson thus you're not caught in the sheer volume of 2000 kids changing class!

Discuss.

I ask because I'm often amused by some of my 'joe public' clients at work telling me what a WONDERFUL doctor Dr 'X' is - and I think 'not according to any of his peer group, mate!' Yes, got a slimy 'bedside manner' but don't mistake that for clinical excellence! Blimey, I don't think I could really rate the docs I work with personally! So how can we, unless we actually know a cross-section of honest and reliable parents- and even DCs at the school, judge? IS it all 'the feel'? Doesn't seem very scientific!

Actually, as a PS, I've visited 3 secondaries for DS1- and they're all so different I feel I'm not comparing apples with apples, and all 3 are comps in southern Hants!

There may be a difference between how doctors work and how teachers do.

If the surgeon who operates on you is a sarcastic unpleasant medical version of professor Snape, it probably won't matter much as long as he puts his scalpel in the right place.

Professor Snape on the other hand is in the business of teaching- he won't be getting his results right unless the students are willing to learn from him. Unless you're at Hogwarts, you cannot separate his results from his manners.

Doesn't mean a teacher has to be smarmy- firm and no-nonsense is good, but he does need a modicum of social skills- not least to model them to his pupils.

When on the secondary hunt dh and I visited our two top possibles during a school day (private visit). We did get more of a 'real feel' for the school, you also get the personal attention of a senior teacher for an hour or so to answer all your questions: just not possible at a busy open day/evening.

I do think you have to be sceptical of the carefully manicured hype, but at the same time there is still a lot you can tell about a school by what they choose to include in the hype. It does help to see a few then you can hear what everyone says, and what differences there are that indicate a genuine difference in emphasis.

We saw several primary schools before choosing and 'knew' within about 5 mins which our preferred one was. That was 6.5 years ago, we've had two children there and dh is Chair of Governors; and my opinion of the school just grows higher and higher every year. It is a superb school.

We felt similarly visiting ds1's secondary. We're only 1 term in, but so far I'm not inclined to think we were wrong.

Of course we look at results and statistics Ofsted reports and so on. But in terms of 'will my ds1 be happy and fulfilled here', I think "the feel" can be very accurate. That's my belief anyway.

gaussgirl. I think you're ahead of the game because you've realised how random the factors are that can lead to judgment.
know what you mean about doctors. have had it with lawyers.

perhaps the best research is to see where the children of the teachers go. Now that would make interesting reading!

We went on feel to a certain extent. And in a way our choice was counterintuitive. But we were proved right soon after.

Clearly if the school has appalling results, a bad rep, poor Ofsted and the parents don't have a good word to say about it, the 'feel' probably won't be good anyway.

Oh and go back more than once. We had an open evening and an open day. One was manicured, one was real.

Have you read Blink? Very interesting on all this stuff, and even covers what patients think of doctors.

I think that the idea of 'choice'in education is somewhat illusory and you make your choice from what, in reality, is available to you and modify your expectations accordingly. You have to make a decision based on a combination of Ofsted/league table results/gut feeling on atmosphere and then just cross your fingers.

No school is perfect. My own dc's primary is an Ofsted Outstanding but having had several years' experience of it, I know that it can be brilliant for some children and definitely less than brilliant for others - depending on ability, teachers, class dynamics. It was good for dd, less so for ds. You're never going to know all this till you get there and no one child is going to have the same 'voyage' through school.

It does help to know the area and local people but tbh at the end of the day it can make things even more confusing. Every parent justifies their own choices anyway.

Is Blink a book?

The head at our catchment "nice" primary school is well known for his abrupt and arrogant manner. One friend, who I have never heard speak ill of anyone, remarked on it after her visit. He was so rude she actually apologised to him (genuinely) and said that she had obviously come at the wrong appt time - the head said no she hadn't but was still rude. Dh's friend (who does not know my friend) reported the same thing, completely independently a week or two later.

We sent dd elsewhere. The school didn't do an official open day, the head personally took parents round with or without the dc. (I appreciate in a larger school the head wouldn't have time to do this)

Went to see a localish primary with very good reputation locally - both for Ofsted results and for how it dealt with kids with SN (at that point DS had a severe language delay). But I loathed it. It seemed very old-fashioned - noisy bells etc, boasting about how they ran SATs booster classes, and they liked to haul off kids with SN into separate rooms for small group work. Teacher showing me around was very uninformative when I asked how much time kids with SN spent out of the classroom in these separate rooms. And even less helpful when asked what support was given to kids with language problems - was told "dunno, that's the teaching assistant's job". That last answer was the absolute killer for me. DS went elsewhere.

Agree with Roisin re: the way the open day is conducted telling you a lot about the school. When we chose a primary we went to the official open evening and there was a world of difference between the way the schools approached it. I was immediately put off by a rah rah powerpoint presentation (to music) by one school and a speech about the PTA which made great mention of the professions of those involved (eg doctors, architects).

Blink