do you think that if schools were able to concentrate on social skills rather than ofsted results..

[stoppinattwo]

we would ultimately have children who performed better all round?

Im talking mainly about primary schools, early learning years, but think it would also apply to older children.

My DD has come home tonight talking about her targets for this term...she sound like a bloomin wall st banker!!!.

I would much rather she learnt to be a good loser, win graciously, be polite, be thoughtful..the list goes on. A lot of the thinks that are sadly lacking a lot in society today. I believe that education is important obviously, as a measure of what we are capable of but why does there seem to be such a rush to hit all kinds of target. My daughter isnt the quickest learner, and she is probably below average in her class but Im not really worried about it, she has taught me so much about what really matters, because I have had to sit back and think "right do I push her to catch up, or do i let her take her own pace" (much to the schools disgust). The teachers are under so much pressure to achieve they send so much home for DD to do in the way of activities intended to get her reading better and writing better. I dont do them with her simply because I believe that after a hard day at school she should be allowed to chill

I just think that schools have lost the point tbh (i dont mean teachers and HT's you understand - i think they mostly do an admirable job) I just think that the focus is quite wrong....what you you think?

One of the reasons I chose private. I want my ds to have an education unfettered by SATs, National Curriculum etc.

You are so right, stoppinattwo.

Lol @ "she sound like a bloomin wall st banker!!!"

Except social skills must also be the responsibility of the parents. Otherwise all the expectation is on schools, poor parents have an excuse to blame somebody else for their poor parenting decisions and there is another stick to beat teachers with.

I do think that the 'old' ways were better - i remember with warmth my primary education nd feel school was so much more 'homely' nowadays it feels like a business- i home educate our youngest and hes doing well without all the pressures.

I feel that primary schools spend LOADS of time on social skills - PSD, personal and social development. I could easily argue too much time.

While social skills are the responsibility of the parent (as is education) social skills shouldn't be suspended while at school while students are pushed and pushed to reach academic targets.

I remember (oh I sound old) when I was at primary school at lunchtimes we would line up at the toilets to wash our hands before lunch. I don't think that this happens now.
Some social things are seeming to take a back seat in the rush to reach level5, level6 etc.

I'd prefer they just sat in rows and got on in with their work; my son found all the early years play and social skills stuff very stressful. He became much happier when he moved up the school and was allowed to sit at his own desk and get on with work in a structured way.

I know that my POV is a minority one though!

My dd likes the social stuff and tends to ignore the work element. I suppose at some point she will have to learn something, but I am not going to stress about it (yet)

Numeracy - I should whenu using mental strategies of counting addition subtraction doubling and halving to solve problems, I can explain my thinking and reasoning without help!!!!

Writing
I always use several different adjectives in my writing and at least one i havent used before

Reading.I can identify the plot and setting of a story, I can discuss adjectives used to describe....dd wouldnt know an adjective if it jumped up and bit her

I completely agree juuule social skills are also home learnt...but in school you get a lot of group activity that some homes cannot offer. My feeling is that it is just such a great shame, it all seems to be about reaching the highest level, having the highest percentage of passing, not which children are the happiest, or play the nicest, or help each other and support each other the most. the measures are English, maths and reading....which are obviously very important at some point but I think in this age where we hear about some really careless and thoughtless atrocities that we are concentrating on some of the wrong things

Hi to tmmj btw XXXX

milly...I am all for orgainsed learning ikwym, I just hate the way a school is deemed better because its results are higher......does it produce nicer people though ......qualifications get you the job, knowing how to deal with people keeps you the job

sorry tmmj...DD is 7yo

Have you spoken to the teacher/school about their social programme?

Things might be different in England but in Scotland we do an incredible number of programmes and activities related to social skills.

The trouble is that often, some pupils (those that need the social skills!) have no respect for the school, staff, other pupils etc.
I work in a nice secondary but am appalled by the manners & behaviour of some of the pupils. Just where have the manners & expections gone? As pupils, we were expected to hold doors open for staff - now I get elbowed & pushed along the corridors with the rest of the pupils without a backward glance, let alone an apology.

janeite....I would never beat the teachers with a stick....most of my family are teachers and i do appreciate the tough time the have...which onyl fuels my arguement for taking away the sats and let them teach what is improtant to the children they are teaching...be it how to play snakes and ladders or how to go to the shops and buy the ingredients for a cake!!!

pointydog...I have spoken about the pressures of targets.....I think i have missed my own point slightly...the socail thing was just an example, I think whizz has the nail on the head....it is manners and behaviour and life in general...getting along with people and reading how people are feeling etc etc.....but also feeling relaxed in and environment and learing at a pace that is less stressful

and as whizz says, sometimes the trouble is also in 2ndary schools....complete thoughtlessness and lack of manners........ my absolute pet hate

My impression is that primaries spend masses of time on social training. But they can't just sit round and learn etiquette all day: they need to be doing something while they are being polite about it.

When I think about how easy it was to get away with bullying in the old days, and how clueless the other children were about helping the victim and putting a stop to it, I think schools achieve a lot more these days.

What is bullying if not a breakdown in social skills.

Yes I totally understand where you're coming from and I do feel that schools do a lot to try and support pupils developing social skills where perhaps they haven't learned them at home. I used to do an annual residential trip with 13-16 year olds and one of the first things we had to teach some of them at the beginning of the week was how to sit at a table for a meal, with a knife and fork and say "could you pass the butter please" etc (I kid you not). But by making it an explicitly required part of the school curriculum it removes even more of the responsibility from some parents.

As a Drama teacher, I often have to teach 14 year olds how to play very basic children's games, like Grandmother's Footsteps for example, because this a whole area of experience that has been denied them/passed them by. Such a shame.

Perhaps the thread on whether there should be compulsory parentcraft lessons should couple with this one to discuss how the government, pre-school provision, health visitors, schools etc can all work together WITH parents to embrace "the whole child" - but then you go down the "we don't want to live in a a nanny state" debate and some children therefore miss out hugely because of the nature of their parents. But putting all the onus on schools, I don't feel, can be the answer as it simply denies where the real responsibility should be and how we shoud support these parents in this.

Stoppinattwo

Yes, I agree it is very target driven. My dd (year 3) has no interest in working, as she is just off in her only little dream world. Fortunately she reads quite a lot and writes pretend magazines and diaries, so I am hoping that will help her a bit. In terms of formal work, she just isn't interested at all! I have had no requests this school year for me to teach her anything extra at home, so I am hoping everything is okay.
Are they asking you to do quite a bit with her at home? I worry that I should be doing more with my dd but I just want her to relax at home.

"always" use an adjective she hasn't used before ??

Crikey, what an exhausting sort of target for a seven year old. She'll have used them all up by the time she's 12!

But in answer to the question, I think the balance between social/personal skills and academic work is quite reasonable at the moment. And I do tend towards the view that the social stuff is the family's prerogative. Frankly, if the family isn't backing it up there is a limited amount the school can achieve anyway. The family is still the major influence over a child's values etc for the first several years of primary school.

Whereas the school certainly should be able to make sure children become numerate and literate by a reasonable age.

Some of the most patronising stuff we have been sent home is to do with SEAL.

But it shouldn't be sitting around learning etiquette, it should be living it and learning that way. Surely, it shouldn't be an explicit part of the curriculum it should be implicit in everything. If a primary child doesn't remember to say please and thank you are they reminded consistently as you would at home? If a child snatches, pushes, whatever are they pulled about it?

As Stoppinattwo says play snakes and ladders, take turns, feel relaxed in an environment and learn at a pace that is less stressful.

Gosh yes - I remember your thread about the hideous letter from the head! Was that you UQ - re: how disappointed they were that you hadn't supported your child with their SEAL h/w?

"If a child snatches, pushes, whatever are they pulled about it?"

They certainly are in ds's state primary school.

Hmmm after I posted that one I did think that I'm sure they are pulled for those things in dcs primary, too. Just thinking out loud and trying to find what it is that's missing, I suppose, and not thinking it through before I posted.