independent schools and recession

[Malkaperlichka]

Is anyone worried about their child's school financial health? Am I crazy for moving my Dd from a very desirable state school to an independent one, when everyone seems to be doing the opposite? If that school closes down due to lack of funds, my Dd would be left without a place. How can one predict the school's future?

No grammar schools here

We have grammar schools around here - but the market for the independent schools is not for those who don't pass the 11+.

It's interesting to see how it works but in the very broadest terms, the divisions break down like this

Larger independent school which is academically selective = bright children of affluent parents
Smaller independent schools = not-so-bright children of affluent parents
Boarding school = nots--bright children of very wealthy parents
Grammar school = bright children of poorer parents

Quatrrocentre,

What would Eton, Winchester and Marlborough make of your market segmentation???

However, I agree that (Eton aside) it's easier for a child to get child into boarding school than the big London day schools.

But QC is talking local, not national?

here its:

Larger independent schools = bright children/connected children of very rich parents

grammar schools = bright children of middle class middle income parents and more affluent parents who for political reasons (don't ask me as i don't understand the difference except the money thing) won't send their children to independent schools

other independent schools = children who fail 11plus from middle class/middle income parents

high school/comps = any one else

The grammar schools in our area do not cater for poorer parents ime (by and large - we have a very low level of governement paid school dinners - a couple of percent i think for whole school)

It is no guarantee that because something has been around a long time it will survive.
Just look at the banks...and Woolworths.

Of course it's no guarantee. But asking around, finding out about history and current financial commitments and position, knowing whether the school is stand alone or part of a bigger organisation are all potential indicators of how well they might weather a storm.

Round here:

Grammar school(s)= children of doctors/lawyers/other professionals (a lot Oxbridge parents),a few 'toffs', a lot from private prep schools, other from top performing state primary schools, some from 'normal' state primary schools who manage to outperform the tutored ones from above.

Prestigious independents: same as above (many of whom wouldn't even consider a state school) minus 'normal'state primary schools, although some on scholarships.

Lesser independents: those that don't get into grammar schools but can't bear thought of comprehensive.

Comprehensives: majority of state primaries, some children of drs/lawyers/profs etc who don't agree with selective education.

SueW,

Boarding schools are kind of national by definition. Maybe QC is saying that no wealthy people local to her would send a bright kid to a boarding school. But I doubt that to be true.

I was talking locally actually and I only know a couple of families who have sent their children to boarding school.

I did board myself - it's quite a bonding experience and am still in touch with a few old school friends. Interestingly enough not one single friend from school has sent their children to board - that may change later on as we and our children get older but interesting (though probably not universally relevant) to observe nonetheless.

Locally a couple of one-form entry prep schools have struggled - one has merged with another school, and another has announced that it is closing at April though rumour has it that Cognita are possibly about to step in. Overall there is still an overall influx from state schools.

Interesting point Amey.

I would be interested to see the catchment areas for those already mentioned vs Rugby, Repton, Oundle, Oakham. I suspect there is still some geographical difference.

QC,

I think the market for boarding schools has changed quite a lot. I also know people who boarded themselves but do not want it for their own children.

And I know single working mums and working couples who send / are planning to send their children to boarding schools as it suits their lifestyles. And some people chose it just because the school is right for their child (special needs support for example).

Sorry have gone right of thread...

Sue,

To continue my 'off thread' theme. Part of the change in boarding school is a move to weekly boarders (rather than termly) and, yes, many boarders parents probably live local to the school.

My point being the top public schools have a fair share of bright children and not just those who couldn't get into the large day schools.

Amey - for sure you are right that there are bright children at boarding schools as there are at the smaller non-selective independent day schools. It's just how the demographic seems locally to me.

I do think boarding at 6th form might be quite a healthy transition to moving away from home but every time I've mentioned it to the DCs their eyes go round with horror.

bags seems very similar to our position here - are you in Kent too?

I think that although it might affect new applications in some schools as people are being a little wary to committing when things are uncertain I think that most parents won't withdraw.

Having made the huge decision to educate independanetly most parents will make it the absolute last cutback.

I'm fairly certain the dc's school will be OK as a very large number of pupils have parents who are doctors/consultants and surgeons at the local hospital so are not particularly reliant on the economy.

Of course parents like myself are but we will do whatever it takes to weather the recession.

DD wants to board at sixth form. She wouldn't be the first - or last I'm sure - who has a longer walk from boarding house to classroom than from home to classroom.

stillenacht, not in Kent!

The school I am looking at, has only been founded in 1991. It has been funded by a family trust and ran a a Ltd.Its facilities are impressive. It is one of the very few, that offer means tested bursaries on a primary level. That's why we are applying there and not at a more established institution.

DS2 has been to three entrance tests this past week and tbh from the number of kids sitting entrance tests for the academically selective schools there does not seem to be much impact from the credit crunch.

agree with that, Happilyconfused - my daughter has done 2 entrance exams so far - 4 to go - and in both cases I would estimate 300 - 400 children for less than 40 places once those coming up from the prep are taken into acount

its still pretty tough to get in these schools and I dont see the better schools having any problems at all during this economic situation - a few less well know smaller ones may struggle but I suspect sufficient demand is generally still there despite the real problems many people are unfortunately currently experiencing

Science teacher "Besides that, finances haven't altered much in the negative direction for fee-paying parents, as a whole"

How did you reach this conclusion science teacher?!

Of course finances are changing in a negative direction because there is a recession on and people are losing their jobs and fearing that they will lose their jobs, or are retaining their jobs but not getting the bonuses they may have used to pay fees. This includes people who may well have children in private schools such as bankers, and other city workers, people who work in property, people who run businesses whose profits are down etc.

Do you think everyone who sends their child to private school is a teacher or doctor?
These are two of the professions that might not be affected so badly but most other people are affected by the recession.

Not everyone has a mortgage, some people are debt free and have savings. They are not helped by low interest rates. (am not saying low interest rates are a bad thing just explaining why people are not necessarily better off as a result of low interest rates)

As to the effect on private schools. I expect people already in the private sector will try to avoid taking their children out. Maybe the private sector will lose some people who live in areas where there are good state schools. They will maybe delay putting their children in private school from 3/4 and send them later, or send them to grammar schools/good comps instead of private secondary.

I fear private schools will be affected more by the government policy of forcing schools to offer bursaries etc. which will involve fees being raised. This will mean that private education will end up being for the very rich who can afford the higher fees and those on lower salaries with bright kids who can use the bursaries. Middle earning professionals might end up being priced out even more than they are at the moment.

If you are worried about a school's finances and its viability ask the head / chair of governors about future finances, and what their margins are ie how many chhildren would have to leave before the school goes into a loss situation. Another indicator might be if they have a long term building programme or similar which would indicate the finances are already in place.

Very true happywomble