ds currently out of year (1 year behind chron. age, yr4 not yr 5). When we move will he be forced to change year group - kent/Sutton/Surrey. Anyone successfully fought?

[ErnestTheBavarian]

OK, so ds started school in Switzerland aged 7.

When we moved to Germany, we decided to put him in 1 year below as he has had 3 years less primary education than his British peers. Due to the late Swiss start, there is so much he's not learnt. Plus his birthday is end August. Oh, and up till recently he had never been educated in English, so age 9 is only just learning to write in English etc.

Both his class teacher, head teacher and dh and I are happy he is in the right place. He's also physically quite small, so is one of the smallest in the class, although the eldest.

We are now looking at moving back to UK next year (Spring 2010). If he stays as he is, he would go into Year 6 in September 2010.

If, however he is forced to go into his official cohort, he will have to start secondary school in September 2010. So he will only have had 3 years education, be the very youngest in the year, still learning to write etc in ENglish.

I phoned some grammar schools in Sutton & they all said absolutely not a problem for him to stay as he is, and start secondary school in 2011. So I was feeling heartened.

But just got snooty email from Kent CC saying he would have to rejoin cohort & start secondary school in 2010.

And obviously, if this is the case, we would miss the application deadline for the secondary school, as this is in October 2009, and we don't move till 2010, maybe even just weeks before the school start.

Can I challenge this. Educationally for many reasons, it just seems to be a ridiculous and totally unfair rule which doesn't take into account the different educational experience, circumstances or needs of my ds.The fact is he has missed 3 years of school, is already out of year, and all his school beleieve he is suited to where is is now.

Does anyone know these 3 LEAs? (maybe Sutton or Surrey are more flexbile?) or if I can challenge this or stand a chance of fighting a 'no' or else any other way around this situation?

Phew. long and waffly. sorry. thanks

bumps - any deferment experts out there?

Don't know the answers for this but am adding it to my "threads I'm on" so I can help bump this for you.

Sorry what was initially such excitement is turning into such a headache

thanks cov.

If we can keep him as he is 1 year below, it makes everything to do with his education, but also the move as a whole, dh job, us giving notice on this house, us finding house in UK, absolutely everything easier. But paramount is the fact that ds would be disastrously disadvantaged if forced to move up to his cohort.

Ernest....

You mentioned that some Grammer schools would take him 'out of year'. Have you considered private school for the end of year 5 / year 6? Some take children 'out of year' and could maybe get him ready for the 11+.

Another point - You're moving to SE England?. Year 5 (1998/99 birthday) seems to me a baby-boom year, compared to year 4. This may help you with private or state places.

Hope someone else can give you more direct help. Good luck

thanks Amey, had a meeting with ds's head teacher today and she was adamant that he is in the right place and it would be detrimental to move him - she got quite passionate about it and said she would do everything in her power to ensure he was able to maintain his year group. Funnily enough - she suggested exactly the same thing, and I hadn't really considered it, but I think you're right and I'm going to start looking into it.

I think Kent is totally ruled out now, so am almost certainly looking at Sutton/Surrey.

If you were to move to Scotland it wouldn't be a probelm! The system here is much more flexible.

Doesn't really help you though!

Well i think the email from Kent CC has made your decision really hasn't it?

Have you emailed surrey to see what they say? (Mind you if the schools say it will be OK I don't see why it wouldn't be.) The fact that he would only have done 3 years of primary makes for exceptional circumstances I would have thought.

a girl in DD1's (Surrey) secondary is out of year - has transferred from a school in New Zealand and is a year above where she ought to be, so it is possible. However, it's maybe easier if you're moving ahead a year, rather than staying down a year.
I also know of a girl who skipped a year by moving from state to private, then moved back to state grammar for 6th form in Kent.
Haven't come across anyone whos child has gone into the year below though, sorry.

Have emailed Surrey & Sutton but not got reply yet.

Problem is, the 3 schools I phoned were all grammars & all had no problem with it. But they did warn me that LEA controlled the admissions of promary & comprehensives, and LEA might force him to rejoin year, if he ended up not getting into the grammar.

But yes, he'll only have had 3 year of school (and only 1.5 years learning Englsih) so it is exceptional. Very frustrating the refusal to look outside the box to best meet kids' needs.

btw, if we want to visit schools, would we normally do this with or without kid

Frustrating is right Ernest. There seems to be no flexibility.

I would visit with child to be honest. We did but it was a private school - don't know if that is different.

We are in Kent. My DS was born in late Aug 99 and currently in year 5. We are allowing him to finish state primary and then redo year 6 at an indie and continue there (hopefully)...i WISH we could have him in year 4 at mo as it would do his confidence world of good but Kent won't allow

If LEA is inflexible, you could consider taking legal advice.
I didn't get to the point of having to phone them but Irwin Mitchell (solicitors) were recommended to me for this.

There is no statute against children being out of allotted year. summer-borns in Leeds and Bradford are allowed to start a year later and continue in that cohort throughout their education. You might have a Human Rights Act argument.

good luck.

If you are in a position to consider independent schools, they your ds will benefit from smaller class sizes which should help him 'catch up' with his year group.

If the LEA insist on him going back to his year group, when you decide to transfer him back to state, you might find he's caught up enough to cope well.

Also its really worth checking out what the state schools will do for your ds. One catholic state senior near us has a lot of children who join with poor English (written and spoken). This school runs a 'primary year' in year 7 to help these kids catch up.

Hi I live in Sutton and the Grammar schools are extremely popular, so looking at 1500 boys going for 120 places!!!! Have you looked at any of the other High schools?
Our borough is renowned for it's Grammar schools and takes the top 2% in the country and has no catchment area, just the top 120 boys get in! Good luck

Hi, Slossomhill, can I ask whereabouts in Sutton is a 'nice' area to live in? Is Carshalton? If you apply for the grammar schools, but don't get in, what happens then? I'd really appreciate hearing more about Sutton from someone who knows it.

Which Primaries are good? Do any specific primaries feed into the grammars?

We could at a stretch and if it helps keep him in year group etc put him in private school, but ony for the 1 year. No way can we afford to put 4 children through private school.

wrt year group, since I spoke to my ds current Head, I am now determined to keep him in the year grou he's in and am prepared to fight to keep him there. We all agree as he's bright, if he had to move up to the correct year h'll probably cope with it, but I don't want to force my son to skip 3 years of education and cope in an unsuitable year group, I want him to stay in the year group in which he has been placed and actually succeed.. He'd go from doing quite well, to being the bottom of the year (in terms of work and age) and struggle and feel out of his depth. Where's the justice there? And all for the sake of 1 week. Pah.

Thanks all so much again btw.

Dh is flying over in a coupkle of weeks for a nosey round.

Ernest, if I had ten pounds for every time I hear the parent of an August-born use the word "cope" to describe their child's progress, I'd be able to pay at least a term's fees at private school. I never hear "thrive" (save on mumsnet!)

Less about being born in August, more about missing 3 years of school and only learning to write in English 6 months ago. Plus the opinion and advice of 2 Head teachers and 2 class teachers.

Understood.

Ernest from what you have said I wouldn't imagine he would have any chance of getting into a grammar school. Most kids who do get in are tutored and extremely competent in English. there are at least 20 boys competing for each place. I believe they have to sit highly selective tests in English, maths and who knows what else.

I live near there Sutton and a friend has told me the non-grammar schools are not very good as all of the top Glynn Technology college and selection is based primarily on distance to the school. It is also in a very nice area. Of course a lot depends on budget and where your husband will be working.

ps am going to bed soon so will reply tomorrow if you ask another qn

sorry some of my message was deleted so it is a bit confusing to read. Also I meant at least 10 boys for each place not 20.

Ernest - I live in Kent but as have only just applied for dd to start school next year have no experience of how rigid the LEA can be (but have heard tell!!)

Anyway my MIL is a child development specialist who often has to represent parents at education tribunals when LEA's don't do what is in the best interests of the child and although she doesn't live in Kent she has done some work down here - I have put a call in to her and asked her about your situation and what remedies there are etc. She was horrified that the LEA wouldn't let your dc stay in the year group he is currently in not least as all new gvt initiatives are aimed at seeing each child as an individual etc - as she works in the field she has access to the sort of info we parents don't so she is going to call tomorrow to report on what if anything you can do/say to the LEA to try to get them to let your dc stay in the year he is currently in - I'll post as soon as I have spoken to her tomorrow - here's hoping as it seems absolutely wrong to make your dc go in the age year given your set of particular circs!

beagle, that's really sweet of you. Thanks so much. Much appreciated.

V interested to hear what she says.

Ernest,

Have you seen this thread?

gov thinking on summerborn children It concerns school starting age, but the links may give you an idea of how LEA's are interpreting the government's guidelines.

Ernest,
Don't know about the "out of year" issue but can I ask why you are looking at Grammar Schools in particular? They are very competitive and attract applicants from all over South London/North East Surrey. There are no Feeder primaries - it's purely based on 11+ test results. The community schools (both primary and secondary)are generally well regarded but you will need to be very careful where you choose to live; the "catchment" areas tend to be very small. Greenshaw High School has 60 places based on ability and the remainder are allocated on distance; last year you had to live within about 900m of the school to get a place. Check the council's website for the entrance criteria.
The Beacon in Banstead (about 3 miles from Sutton) didn't have a great reputation but they now have a new Head and I have heard good reports about the school recently.
Oh and in repsonse to your question about which are the "nice" areas - according to estate agents they would be the favoured South Sutton or Carshalton Beeches!

Ernest - sorrymeant to update earlier - MIL called some of her colleagues that work in the area for mor einfo on how to challenge and what can be done (if anything) and she is due to get a call back tomorrow (wednesday) so will post again when I hear - sorry!