HELP - Am I right to defer my childs entry to school? Have 2 DAYS TO DECIDE!!!

[MoosieGirl]

I know this subject has been posted to death (I myself have started a thread) but I have to make this decision as the deadline is Monday 12th Jan.

My son will be 4 on August 4th and is bright and confident (with no SN) but I feel that he is just too young to start school.

DP and I have taken advice from his pre school teacher who agrees totally that another year at pre school would be a huge advantage to him (and other Aug born kids). But she also said that if he had to go in Sept 09 (as opposed to Sept 2010) he would be fine in her opinion.

I think we have almost made the decision to defer him until 2010 so he would be starting school at 5.1.

But are we doing the right thing "messing" with his education? Most people we have spoken to have never heard of deferring and are quite scathing of it and its really knocking my confidence in doing something that I believe will help my son get on in life.

What are peoples opinions on deferring just for the sake of being summer born?

He will be allowed to go into Reception in 2010 (not Y1) and wont have to skip a year further down the line as long as we dont leave the LEA area (Bradford).

Can anyone see any drawbacks to deferring him? Has anybody done it?

The application form has to be in on Friday

Please help!

he'll be fine - send him this year. He will miss out otherwise

DS2 was 4 and a week when he went to school - he was fine (altbough tired)

he'll be fine - send him this year. He will miss out otherwise

DS2 was 4 and a week when he went to school - he was fine (altbough tired)

Up here in Scotland it is quite common to defer if the child is not yet 5, because we have the advantage of them always starting in P1 even if they have deferred, like you do in Bradford. I'd say in general there are very few parents who regret deferring, and rather more who wish they had deferred.

The only possible downsides I can see are -

is it reasonably common to defer?, or would he "stand out", which is never a good thing IMHO

is it fine for transfer to secondary? presumably if your LEA allows real deferral they are well set up for this.

are there issues about sports or after-school clubs which he might not be able to do, or be separated from his classmates?

Otherwise, I think deferring is a good thin generally, and I think many many more parents in England would choose to do it if they had a genuine choice, instead of the more usual Y1 start and missing reception.

Niecie - Thanks. Your post just highlights that its different for every individual child. Its so hard trying to do whats best - i wish i had a crystal ball!

Blondie - Apparently we are one of very few countries in the world who start our kids so young. Most other European countries dont start until kids are about 6 or 7 - but they do have really good kindergartens.

Snorkle - how old is your DD now? Have you seen any drawbacks or negatives? Are you in Scotland or do you have a good LEA?

DS is definately not small for his age although but he is not massive either. He's bright and curious but is just a young boy, who is so soft and loves kisses and cuddles.

Did you struggle with the decision and if you dont mind me asking was it a summer birthday issue or an SN? Do you know many other children that have deferred or is DD the only one in her class/school?

You are absolutely right a crystal ball would be very handy!!!! I would have thought beforehand that DS2 would fair much better than DS1 as he was so much older when he started school but that hasn't been the case.

It is a shame you can't leave the deferral until later in the year - it really is too soon to tell if your DS is really ready. Do you have any idea what would happen if you did leave it until June or July to ask or if you refused the place at the last minute and reapplied next year?

snorkle, the list of social skills learnt in school and not nursery is huge. from teamwork and group projects to responsibility. in nursery activities are very much individual like painting, playing with sand even listening to stories. from dd has been in school they have been given tasks in which they learnt leadership, communication, presentation skills etc.

Why do they need leadership skills and presentation skills at the age of 4? As opposed to 5 .

it's not the point of what age the skills are needed at.

i think when it comes to secondary school and your child realises they started late and were kept back a year, so will the bullies, how will your child defend themselves? by saying 'my mum didn't think i was ready for school the same time as all the other kids my age' yeah right.

any bully will have a field day with your child.

What's being a young boy that loves kisses and cuddles got to do with starting school?

Ds loves kisses and cuddles. He regularly gives his teachers a hug goodbye - and I get a lovely cuddle when I drop him off (before he dashes into his classroom) and when I pick him up. He was still ready to go this year - ie 8 months younger than you are considering for your son.

The other thing to find out is whether you could, for instance, pick him up early on several or all days - I can pick ds up at lunchtime this year, and I believe also next year when he is in reception. Although I normally get moaned at if I do this, and he loves staying to after school club occasionally.

I think choosing the right school and, for you, also, choosing when to send him, is a really big decision. Most of us will always still end up wondering at times whether we've done the right thing or not.

But if it's standard practice to allow it in the OP's LEA, Blondie, presumably there will be a mixture of ages in reception in most schools?

There is substantial evidence that suggests that boys in particular benefit from later starts. See here for example. I think it's depressing that it should be a question of a child not being 'tough' enough to start sitting in a classroom for a whole day at the age of just 4.

Gremlin - I totally agree about going straight into Y1. Im glad you DD is doing really well. I think girls tend to be more into school and enjoy the sitting and learning side of things. Boys IMO just want to run and play. Thankfully DD (1 next week) is a January birthday!

MinS - Thanks, your list of downsides list my exact worries about deferring him! In our area its NOT very common at all to defer, although he will only be 4 weeks older so how much will he stand out? The sec. school is not an issue so long as we dont move (bit of a worry in todays climate) and the sports thing is amajor concern. The football teams go on age not year so he would have to play with the year above in any official team game. But with mixed year group classes at primary he would know some of them wouldnt he? (sorry sounds like im trying to convince myself!).

mistlethrush - what i am trying to say is that he is emotionally young and im not sure that emotionally he is ready for the rough and tumble of school life.

So is your DS at nursery within the school and does 5 full school days a week (except when you pick up early)? And will then start reception in Sept 09 age 4.5?

My DS goes to pre school 4 days a week, mornings only.

Our local primary does not like early pick ups, its full time, all day from September.

Midnight - although it is current policy within Bradford LEA, it is NOT standard practice and most parents dont know they can defer. So I dont think that there will be many deferred children in the school (if any).

Blondie has outlined my biggest fear, that I will be setting him up for a life time of bullying. Does anyone else have any experience of this?

Thanks for the link - there are so many studies and reports on this subject which all come back to the same conclusion that boys esp. do better with a later start at school.

But should i pursue this at the risk of making different from all the other kids and possible bullying?

Moosie, dd is 13 now (yr 8). It's a private school and no the LEA (England) isn't flexible - it was in fact the deciding factor in the decision to go private & it was an agonising one. You never really know if you've done the right thing as you can never tell how things would have been, but I think we made the right choice. She's extremely socially well adjusted has a wide circle of friends, mixes with anyone and is very empathetic (of course this all might have been true in the other year - who knows?).

While it wasn't an SEN issue, it did later transpire dd is dyslexic. She's done well at school - top quartile of her cohort type thing, but school isn't a complete breeze for her like it is for ds who is very able, due I'm sure to her dyslexia and she doesn't really love academics in the same way that ds does. I can only imagine that things would have been even harder for her in a higher year group.

Drawbacks:

1. Limited choice of senior schools - state wouldn't take her out of year - some but not all other local independents would. In practice this hasn't been a problem as we're very happy with her school, but if things hadn't worked out it may have been an issue. For you, moving LEA (or wanting to go to an out of LEA secondary) would present an equivalent drawback.

2. Sport: she's been hoofed off sports teams more than once which can be upsetting. The school haven't always handled that well as they forget her age. Conversely, in the year above she may well not have made the teams at all.

3. Confidence: she has occasionally faltered a little here, though is generally fine. I think this has more to do with living in her brothers shadow and her dyslexia than being down a year to be honest, but I have had to explain to her that she is in the year she is not because she's 'thick' but because I chose it. Another reason is that the school was oversubscribed in the year above so actively encouraged those in her position into the younger year - there's always been several of them.

4. Immunizations: She wasn't allowed the cervical cancer vaccine with her pals this year, but will have it in the catch up program in a couple of years time. I don't see this as a major problem.

I'd apply anyway and review in 6 months time. He could have matured a lot in the intervening period.

Madam - are you in the UK? If so what area?
Its lovely that your kids have blossomed because they were not rushed into education. Its a shame for the DD of your friend, even the most intelligent kids need to have a childhood and behave like children - childhood is short enough as it is!

Moosie - yes, ds is in 'nursery' 5 dpw, normal school hours 4 days, one day I pick up at 1pm. Only mornings are compulsory for ds, but a large proportion of children stay all day most days. Some start the day in before school care, some are in afterschool care until 5 or 6.

Whilst it is 'nursery' and quite a lot of the day is 'play', ds has now gone through most of his letters (phonics) and has just started with numbers. He loves it - he considers this to be play too - but at the same time it is teaching him a whole lot more than he was learning in nursery (I had to go back to work pt when he was 6mo and so he has been in nursery 3 dpw since then).

Even some of the quieter children in the class couldn't wait to get back to school after the holidays.

Hi Moosiegirl,

One of my close friends was in your position last year (that fact that she opted to defer gave me more confidence in doing so too even before I did my research and came up with the rather passionate views I hold today).

Hers was a younger sibling. So she saw her headmistress in November to explain that she would apply for the place but might turn it down if she felt her child would not be ready. When she was then allocated the place, she phoned up Bradford Council and told them she'd decided to wait another year. You don't defer the place in that situation - you just apply all over again.
So this year, she is re-applying to her school. And this time she will accept the place. So he will start reception in 2009 at 5.0.

I suggest you do the same. Apply, but also visit the heads of the schools you are considering so they are forewarned and also have a word with the council to clear it with them just in case the team there is different from last year. I think the heads will appreciate you having an open mind.

Do you want me to put you in touch with my friend? She is lovely and less passionate than me (I can't even talk about the subject any more without ranting so you may want to avoid me if you are keeping an open mind). If so tell me if you want an email address. You sound as though your main concern re taking the teacher's advice is fear of being different. There are a few of us around in the Bradford LEA and my friend (who is a former doctor) and I expect our boys to be applying to Oxbridge one day (this is not a joke). If you defer, you will need to learn to smile sweetly when people say things like "I didn't defer because he's bright". It's not their fault they don't know about the issues but you'll find a way to explain in a way that doesn't judge. As for your son, you'll tell him you had a choice about whether he'd be the oldest or the youngest and thought it would be more fun to be the oldest.

I know a couple of other people in your position in RL but their boys are both 4th-born so I don't think we are acquainted though it would not surprise me if you are in the northern part of the LEA in the dales.

Sorry, forgot the bullying question.

Yes, I was introduced about a year ago to a lady with a 3-year-old August-born boy who told me she had elected not to defer despite having the choice "because he's bright".

I met her again this September. The child was bullied at school in his reception year. she believes it was connected with being the smallest and youngest. Apparently it was fairly serious - he struggled with nightmares for several months. Things are getting a bit better now as there is a mixed year-group between reception and year 1 so he gets to be in a class where he isn't the youngest.

Another friend with a 31st August child reports less serious incidents of him being "picked on" because he still likes playing with trains in Year 2 (at the ripe old age of 6).

My son is an August birthday. He started in September and that was the right decision educationally, socially etc.
Like others, rather than delay his entry until January (no educational or social benefit - friendship groups already formed) I would have wished to have the option to delay for a full year. I still would like option to do this on entry to secondary school - not because he is behind educationally or socially (he's not) but because he'd be so much more ahead in the later year group - particularly in terms of his size and therefore sport.
Government recently reviewed this issue and concluded bizarely that parents should have right to delay to January etc - but not a full year for an August birthday.

I don't know much about the UK school system, we're in Canada, but I would defer if you have the chance. Here they don't start until they're 5, my son is 5 and a half and started this year. I couldn't imagine enrolling him a year earlier.
I think boys definitely benefit from waiting to have a structured classroom environment. He is a high-energy kid, not great to sit and practice writing etc. he loves PE and art and music as they are more "active".

we didnt send our DD to school until she was 6- within a month she was reading Enid Blyton and Roal Dahl books thus bypassing all the trauma my friends had re reading at early age. She is now 8 and has english skills of secondary school mainly due to imagination that was developed by delaying school entry. Maths she is also above age. We did it as my husband is from Dubai and they start at 7 - Although nervous it was the best thing I ever did - Socially she met up with pre school friends regularly so no problem.

IMO you need to go with what you feel is best for your child - you know him better than anyone lese.

My ds is november birthday and altho just 6 is in Yr 2 becasue he is emotioanlly and socially very mature having a sister only 16 mths older, and was very unhappy in his 'real' age group.

He does not get bullied in the slightest and fits in really well having lots of really good friends.

If you think he would be happier if you defer then you should do so