I am considering moving DC1 out of the state sector

[happynewyeartoall]

DC1 is in year one at our local state school and getting on really well, absolutely adores school, has great friends, teachers have nothing but praise for DC academically and socially and everyone is happy. The school is extremely local to us, friends are local and the school performs well in all areas. DC is extremely bright, already on level 10 reading books, can do complex numeracy work mentally and has a thirst for learning and constantly wants to learn more. Whilst we have tried to downplay his abilities and certainly don't think that he's a genius we simply don't think that the school are able to get the best from him and whilst we have tried to ignore it he's streets ahead of most of his peers at school. They do deal with him quite well but we feel that he'd thrive in a more competitive environment and cannot get rid of the niggling feeling that his current school just isn't ideal for him.

We have 2 options, one is to keep him where he is and make sure that we work with the school to keep him motivated but as we are keen for him to move into a private or grammar school at 11 we wonder if it would make more sense to move him into a prep school at 7 to make sure that he stands the best of chance of this happening? The school we have in mind have about a 95% success rate of getting children into their chosen schools at 11.

Our concerns are that the school is less local and he would lose the close friendships he has built up at his current school and if he joins the prep at 7 or 8 he would be one of the only new children where the others have been together for up to 4 years.

DC2 is much younger and at the moment we think that they'll be absolutely fine in the local school so it would only be DC1 who we would move. We could manage to pay the prep school fees without any problems and it would give us extremely good odds that we would be able to get him into the grammar at 11 or into the top stream of the local outstanding comprehensive both of which take lots of prep school children. We are in a very middle class area and the children in both the state and private schools are from very similar backgrounds. The prep schools fees are fine but we simply don't have £24K a year spare to put 2 children through private secondary school and feel that we need to earmark fees for DC2 as there are not such good state options for girls at secondary.

It sounds like the school loves your child and he loves it? He is happy and well settled and the teachers are aware of his talents. This is every parents' dream surely? Have you discussed your concerns with the school?

BTW I am an independent school parent - so hopefully fairly impartial in all of this.

Thanks for your reply. My next step is to arrange to have a proper chat with the current school and see what we can come up with. I agree that it sounds like we have a dream set up but there is a nagging feeling that won't go away and my husband has now started voicing the same concerns that I have even though I had not raised them with him.

Message withdrawn

My two DC's were moved to independant for the opposite of yours in that they needed a lot of help and weren't getting it. I always said if I had bright, self motivated kids I would never send them to independant and do feel you are so lucky. Can he not take the 11 plus at a local grammar school. I do feel that if your DS is happy then you should leave him especially as he has you to support him and you are so obviously aware of his needs.

Dilemma456, We are going to arrange to meet up with the teacher after the holidays and talk to her about it. We have a number of friends with children in the prep school and have looked around it and immediately felt that it matched his needs and interests very closely. We were actually offered a place there for reception but turned it down in favour of our current school but we keep coming back to it. What is difficult is that we cannot put our fingers on what is not working at the current school when there are so many positives to it and we think that it will be perfect for our younger child.

Flowertop, thank you so much for your message. I think that it is a very difficult decision isn't it? I think that my concern is that he will be allowed to coast if he's left there and not challenged in the same way he might be elsewhere. I am aware that I sound like a pushy parent but have been very careful not to push him hence choosing his current school in the first place but sometimes his desire for information and his grasp of concepts makes me think that he'd be happier where all the children in the class have the same interests. On the other side I do think that it is important that he understands that not everyone has the same interests as him and can do as much as him and he has to understand that they have different skills and strengths.

It may be a case of the grass being greener. No one who pays for their child's education is going to have anything negative to say about the school they have chosen. Not all private schools make the best of the talents their pupils have and not all state schools fail talented pupils either.

I would talk to the school and if they aren't in tune with your thoughts then it may be worth looking at alternatives. However from what you say they seem to appreciate how bright your ds is.

If you have the money and feel that the private school would be better for your DS, then move him.

If he is as bright as you say, he would have no problem passing the 11+ without extra tuition.

What makes you think that there are no other bright children in his class?

Thank you for all your responses, they are very helpful. I know that there are other bright children in the class and that the school deals with them well but he does get bored and has started to ask me for more things to do at home. I printed off a 7+ maths paper that was linked to on here to see if he understood it and to prove to myself that he wasn't at that level and despite having only covered addition and subtraction at school the only questions he didn't understand were those with fractions. I have never ever done any work with him at home until 2 weeks ago when he asked for work and I downplay his academic interests massively for fear of being pushy but feel that he is pushing me in this direction. I Would also add that school work is not his only interest, he is very sociable and he is very sporty and obsessed with football, both playing it, watching it, reading about it and talking about it, mostly to me, who has no interest in football at all.

I have all of mine in the independent sector, but we have had a mix, so I have experience of state primary.

I would say that if you are happy with your primary school, and money is something to be carefully budgetted, then keep the school fees for later.

If your child is thriving and meeting targets early on and with ease, you may want to consider pulling him out by the start of year 5. It is highly likely that once your child has met national targets for SATs, they will just let him coast while they concentrate on the other children.

A prep school education is not just an expensive version of what you get at state school though. It is much, much more than that.

I'd be inclined to stretch him sideways by doing non-school activities, rather than giving him additional curriculum-based work, tbh.

Music can be good for kids like this can he learn an instrument? Learn a bit of music theory? Or another activity that will satisfy the geeky side of him without making him even further ahead at school drama? photography? Dd1 at this age got a build-your-own camera kit and was obsessed for ages. There's a boy in my ds's class (v. mixed state primary) who is writing a novel, and intermittently a group of them try to write and film screenplays based on his 'book'.

Chess can also be good for the mathematically-inclined. Etc.

I've been through this and got the t-shirt with dd1, who was in quite a rough primary school which was not at all sympathetic to her needs. For various reasons we didn't move her, and actually I think having to muddle through and focus on her own interests rather than just swimming with the stream as she would have done in the more academic private schools we looked at has made her a more interesting, thoughtful and confident teenager than I think she might have been had she been in a more obviously 'suitable' environment. And she sailed into grammar school without any particular extra preparation.

DD2 looks set to be the same (in Reception, just starting to read chapter books, class still doing basic phonics sounds). It's not a problem because her teacher is fantastic at doing creative and interesting stuff with them, so she is in no way bored. But in a school that had a much more grindy, 3Rs approach, she might be bored senseless.

I think you need to talk to the school. If they get where you're coming from, are basically supportive and are providing an interesting environment for him and other bright children in the class, and (most importantly) he's happy, then I'd save your money tbh. If you get the feeling that the schoolwork is a bit unimaginative (too many dull photocopied sheets coming home), not sufficiently differentiated and the school do not react well when you try tactfully to discuss these issues, then it might be time to look more seriously at other options.

But don't panic or feel you somehow have to move him. There are loads of bright kids in state schools, having a fun and interesting time, doing well academically and getting into good secondary schools and universities. They won't have the same glitzy facilities, they won't be pushed quite as hard and they won't have as much homework (this is a plus, btw), but if they're happy and well-supported they'll be fine.

Frogs, thank you so much, I don't even know you and you have summed up my child and my feelings perfectly. I particularly love your description of geeky interests. He is not a geeky child at all but he is into such geeky things, he loves books about how things work and is a very obsessive child. If he is interested in something he totally absorbs himself in learning about it. We moved from Thomas Tank at about 18 months through to spiderman, the incredibles and have just come out of Dr Who into football. A typical conversation goes something like this

Mummy

Yes darling

In series 2 episode 7 of the 4th Dr, what was the 367th word uttered by the 4th companion?

I don't know darling

Well, if you look at magazine issue number 32 on page 63, you'll see...........

When talking about football he bombards me with facts and quizzes about current players, the history of the premier league, inter milan in 1973, I am sure you get the picture.

He currently does 2 sport activities after school which he enjoys and I am keen that he gets plenty of exercise and stopped drama after 18 months but he has expressed an interest in chess so I may explore that a bit further and will consider music lessons for him. He is also keen to start tennis which I have earmarked for the summer.

Is he Aspergers?

I don't think so, I don't know very much about aspergers but he has no social issues at all and a good understanding of other peoples feelings and emotions and interacts very well with other children, he is very popular and sociable. Perhaps he may have some traits but nothing that concerns me or anything that has ever been flagged as a concern.

He sounds great, newyear. My 9yo can bore for England on the subject of mediaeval weaponry/cricket/rugby (and he's bright but not outstandingly so). I think it's a boy thang.

Happy is good. Social skills are good too. I'd play it by ear tbh. Check out the vibe you get from the school, keep him busy. If you have the kind of problem that means you should move him, you will know about it. Otherwise I'd be inclined not to try and fix something that ain't broke.

And don't stress about secondary entrance. The grammar school tests take a bit of preparation -- kids should have seen the kind of VR/NVR test they're going to be required to take, should have done slightly more advanced maths than most Y6 teachers will have covered by November and learnt how to write decent extended prose. But the tail end of Y4 or start of Y5 is early enough to start thinking about this, and it should be familiarisation rather than full-on cramming.

'everyone is happy' is the key in your OP, I think.

I'd be really careful about moving him because of that.

At the very least, have a meeting with the school and see what they suggest; have they got a G & T register, is he on it, and/or is there extension work he can be having? I agree with what frogs said.

If you can get his needs met at school and stretch him with stuff like music at home then state might actually be just one more bonus TBH. I feel strongly that it was brilliant for me to go through the state system. I did well academically, (better results than many friends I met at Uni whose results had cost their parents tens of thousands!!!!) and I met and mixed with all sorts of people, and learned to take people as they are and not be scared of the rougher types etc etc; I think state school can give you the ability to relate to everyone and to feel there are no 'no-go' areas of society, I suppose I'm talking about becoming a more truly rounded individual and learning to value people.

Completely agree that if he's happy you should leave him and stretch him in other ways as the earlier poster suggested. It may be a good idea to investigate options for later on where you may find the advantages of an independent education start to become more obvious. If this were me I might at least look into prep schools which have a 7+ entry and secondary level 11+ . Have a look at some schools now and then consider moving him at these more natural breaks. That would also give you an opportunity to prepare him emotionally and academically for the change and to save for the fees!

You may find that some of the other children in the class start catching him up somewhat over the next year or so - children don't all develop at the same rate....

BTW, what makes you think he is bored? Many children want to do more work at home, but are not necessarily bored at school.

I think we expect an awful lot from our schools. The individual education plan the government would like for all children realistically can't work.

My son is bright and always has been. Again, he is no genius but seems ahead at the moment (I was a teacher so quite a good judge) On ds's report we had a few interesting comments such as he loses concentration in a group situation which could mean he's bored (he does know a lot of what they are teaching - sounds/names of shapes etc) but it could mean that he needs to concentrate better. The teacher has asked whether he spends a lot of time with adults as his vocabulary is amazing and he can relate to adults and children. I know this is code for 'your son can be a precocious twerp sometimes' but we all take him as he is. I totally disagree with the way reading is taught - 2 sounds a week and books that rely on 'remembering' the words and they children are bored with repetition of one/two words for each text. This is also, interestingly, a private school. We didn?t get into either of our local schools and were given a school that we would have in no way considered for ds 1 as it has behaviour issues and as he is a leader, not a follower, we saw problems arising!

So, I take him to museums -natural History and the such like, we last went to St. Pauls in London and he was talking about the floor being the same as the NHM, that is was beautiful, wonderful etc. We talked about the crypt, what the propose of the building was/is, how to behave, respect etc. I hear him read everyday (not 3 x's a week school wants) for 10 mins as he's desperate to read anything and everything. We do get the deep questions all 4 year olds ask ' How do birds fly?', 'How does day turn into night' 'What did you want to be a mummy' and we talk these through as best as possible. I suppose what I'm trying to say is I don?t solely rely on the school to teach my child and yes, I have another ds and one on the way.

His school does mean small classes and for ds 1 this is a plus point as he would just sit at the back of a state school and either be disruptive or just do nothing. He needs a firm, confident hand, firm boundaries as he is constantly testing everyone and everything. His school is excellent at manors, has lots of sports and outdoors activity, smartness, relating to your peers and, most importantly of all, he loves it there. I am sure things will even out in a couple of years...

Muppet, you could be describing my DS

He needs constant stimulation, whether it be sports, culture or discussion, etc.

He is in the juniors now (at a State school), and has luckily had strong teachers so far He loves knowing about things, and so the history/geography, etc is more in depth now and so more interesting.

Thanks once again for all your kind messages. As I said before, I don't have a problem with the school, we are very lucky to have such a good school so close to us but something doesn't sit right about it for me and it won't go away. I also have a lot of friends with children at various independent schools and I see what these children are doing and I know that he would absolutely thrive and bite off my hand to given the same opportunities and I feel that we may not be doing our best by him by going with that instinct.

We wouldn't move him before the start of Yr3 anyway, I am considering it now incase I want to register him for the entrance tests next Jan (yr2) with a view to starting in yr3.

Yes, he's exhausting but lovely. He wakes around 6.30 every day and the questions don't stop! I currently go into his room to clear up his 'experiments' that he does when he goes to bed. (currently how wet does cardboard get before disintegrating everywhere?) I am teaching him about music -crotchet/quavers etc and he has a bash on the piano. He's very literal so we have to be careful what he is told as as far as he's concerned once learned it's in his brain forever. He's a funny chap with a very determined mind, he dragged his bedside cabinet to his door and used it to climb over the stairgate when he was 2 ish and the next night still escaped from his room as he went under the openeing catch and pushed up with his shoulders. Thankfully ds 2 seems very different and a a much more contented baby at 14 months (no crawling/walking yet and a very happy placid boy)

My favourite ds 1'ism' was in the summer hoildays when I was driving and we were having a discussion about something. He said 'I've listened to what you've said, I've heard what you've said but I don't agree with you...' He's 4.

I think the main advantage of the independent sector is class size and the opportunity for more one to one time with the teacher/TA. I chose private for reasons other than class sizes but it clearly makes a difference and my ds's teacher said he would have problems in a large class.

I'm interested in why you think the state option is good for DC2 but not for DS. Is this because DS is brighter? Because IME flipping that logic would be the right way to look at it.

Truly bright and motivated children will do well wherever they go. In fact the rigorous drilling regime of a prep school can be quite stultifying for the very bright.

On the 11+ front, a few practice papers are all that you will need. DD has just sat it - we're not sure whether or not she will continue in the independent sector or go to a very good state grammar. A lot of parents go in for coaching - which seems a bit OTT to me - but it's still a lot cheaper than 5 years of prep school fees.

not much to add to the good posts on here

if ds is happy and content then i would not move him

passing the 11+ sounds a dead cert from how you describe him

why rock the boat?