Primary admissions/class sizes - is this normal or is it a sort of selection by the back door?

[AnarchyInAManger]

My DD is 5.6 and has so far had a combination of autonomous HE, and private kindergarten. So I know nothing about how primary schools work, and don't know if this is normal practice or not.

I've come to the decision that she should start at a primary school next school year (patience and money have run out for other options, I need to start work as I am single parent, etc etc). We live about 5 mins walk from the nearest primary, the two next nearest are about 1.5 miles away in different drections.

I rang the closest school, which has excellent SATs results, v v good reputation/facilities etc, to enquire as to whether there were any spaces within DD's year group. The head avoided answering the question and said I needed to come in for a visit before he would discuss availability of places. I went for the visit, and after showing me round he explained that the school was 'chocka' but I was welcome to apply, and that parents 'could appeal and did win' [his words]

But the school only takes 20 into each class (2 classes for each year group) so is it 'full'? I thought 30 was the maximum? Each class of 20 had a teacher and teaching assistant so staffing can't be a concern.

And if it isn't 'full' then is he in effect ensuring that, after the 40 are accepted for each year group, only the children of articulate parents who are able and prepared to go through the appeals process are getting places? It did seem to me that he wanted to see me before he decided what to tell me

Ring the LEA and check up. That's what I'd do.

It might be to do with space. Were the classrooms quite small?

Each school has a set pupil intake based not only on having no more than 30 in the class but also based on the size of the classrooms/school.

The PIN is set by the LEA.

It sounds like selection by the back door. Is it a faith school?

What islandofsodor says.

The maximum legal number in a Foundation or KS1 class is 30. However, schools have a separate pupil admission number which can be much less than the legal class size number.

My old headteacher always asked parents to come and meet him and see the school before he would discuss whether places were available.

Its not a faith school, no. Just a 'nice' school in a 'nice' area.

Whats with this meeting parents before discussing places though? Surely its a simple yes or no that they could give on the phone?

I didn't think they were allowed to do that.

Agree with ios - our school is only allowed 80 children per year group. We have 3 Y2 classes but none have 30. Be warned if the year group size is not a multiple of 30 you are likely to have mixed age classes, which you may be fine with but it is something to ask.

The LEA should be able to tell you if it is full or not. We moved DS last year to another school in the area and literally worked down our list in order of preference to see where the spaces were. I did however give my maiden name as I didn't want them getting straight on the phone to his old school to say I'd been calling.

Anarchy, it's not always as simple as that. Sometimes, my old Headteacher had already had conversations with other families about moving their children to the school. There might be only one place, but a couple of children wanting it if you see what I mean. It sometimes happens when people are waiting for house sales/purchases to go through etc. The headteacher may have a space, but wants to give you the full picture - ie. another family are moving within a few weeks and want the place.

He's not able to keep the place open for them if someone else comes along, but he may want to just suss out what the position is with the second family in order to be fair to everyone. I suppose he's might also be seen as keeping his options open in case the other family doesn't take up the place. No headteacher likes to have empty spaces in the school.

I work at a junior school, often in the office, and we are definitely not allowed to say on the phone that we have spaces, only that they can come & see the school, & they then have to apply to the LA - all admissions are now done through the LA & we often don't know about them till we get notification that a place has been allocated. So we might think we had a space but it might actually have already been given to someone else that we didn't know about.

See, acording to my local council, the schools admissions service only deals with places for children starting reception or secondary. DD will be going straight into Year Two, and it seems from the council website that I am supposed to apply directly to the school.

I'm starting to see its not as simple as I expected it to be! I thought you'd just have to phone up, find out if there was a place, and then make the decision. I'll be ringing the LEA on monday to see what they say.

The school is the only option really - the next nearest are too far for us to walk every morning and there aren't direct bus services. Doesn't help that there was a lovely small primary almost opposite our house til two years ago that was closed as apparently there were sufficient places at other local schools