Have you lost an appeal but refused the allocated school? Advice needed!

[valhala]

If anyone out there has experience of losing a school appeal and being offered a totally unsuitable school instead I'd be very grateful for some advice.

I have a secondary school appeal coming up in 2 weeks time, which I fear I will lose. In a nutshell - we have recently moved, my ED obtained a place at the local school but it is oversubscribed in my YD's year. It's the only school in our town and the next nearest is nearly 6 miles away and the only other option as I don't drive. It is in a busy city, has problems in many areas including academically and with pupil behaviour and so on and is also unacceptable to me as my YD is socially and emotionally very immature though very bright and would be vulnerable in many ways. She would have a hell of a time there. There are other issues but I won't bore you!

If I win the appeal my questions will be irrelevant but if I don't I have real problems. I cannot - WILL NOT - send her to the other school for her own safety and emotional wellbeing so what the hell happens next?!

I know I can Home Educate but that is not a realistic option given my financial and personal circumstances. I have HE'd in the past but to do so now would be detrimental not only to my DD but to all 3 of us.

I know, of course, that if she receives no education, at school or otherwise, I am liable to prosecution and that only a Court can overturn an appeal decision. So I wondered whether any other parents had found themselves in the same position and if so what they did about it?

Has anyone lost an appeal and fought an LA to get a suitable place for their child having refused an unsuitable school subsequently allocated to them?

Does anyone know how and why a negative appeal decision might be contested in court?

Is a court case instigated an LA regarding a child who is not receiving any education a simple matter of establishing whether the child is or is not being educated or does the parent get the chance to explain why and gain some resolution?

If anyone can advise I would be eternally grateful.

I haven't been in your situation, but I am a member of my LEA's school admissions appeals panel.

To win a first appeal, you have (broadly speaking) to show that the LEA has not applied its admissions criteria properly or there has been an error in the way your application was handled: in other words, that you should have got a place when they were first awarded. If you lose that appeal, your only chance to overturn that decision is (again) if you can demonstrate that the appeal panel misdirected itself or failed to follow proper procedure. That will probably mean going to court, which is slow and potentially expensive.

Why exactly did your YD not get a place at your preferred school when your ED did? I'm assuming that, as she's now the sibling of a pupil, that will place her near the top of the waiting list - is that right? Is she going to school at the moment? Where?

I can understand your frustration at not getting your daughters into the same school but arguing that you find the other school unacceptable will not cut much ice at any appeal. In the first place, you need to demonstrate why your child should be admitted to your first choice school, rather than argue against another school. Secondly, the LEA is not going to concede that another of its schools is 'unacceptable'.

Look very carefully at your first choice school's admissions criteria and then assemble as much evidence as you can that your daughter fulfils those criteria. Does the school have a criterion of 'social need' (not all do)? You mention that she is socially and emotionally immature: do you have any sort of assessment from (say) your GP or an inclusion manager at her previous school which would confirm that? In their opinion, would it be beneficial for your daughter to be at the same school as her older sister? That sort of approach is more likely to bear fruit, I think.

On home education, your child has to be receiving an education at school or otherwise. If you really can't home ed, that means she must go to school. LEAs are always very resistant to anything they perceive as blackmail; if parents refuse a place at the school offered by the LEA and keep their child at home, this does not mean that they will be offered a place at the school they sought.

I expect someone will come along who has been on the other side of the appeal process but, until then, I hope this helps.

I would just add to the above post the following.

the school will almost certainly argue the case that it is overcrowded/full and that to provide your child with a place would be to harm the education of the other children.
However, it is amazing how often the school fails to provide evidence of this and if so, point that out.

BoccaDellaNativita on Sun 07-Dec-08 23:06:25
"I haven't been in your situation, but I am a member of my LEA's school admissions appeals panel.

To win a first appeal, you have (broadly speaking) to show that the LEA has not applied its admissions criteria properly or there has been an error in the way your application was handled: in other words, that you should have got a place when they were first awarded."

Depends on the LEA. In our LEA there were three steps to the appeal process. In the first, the school had to prove that they were indeed full. If they had not succeeded in doing so, they would have had to admit the child.

They succeeded.

The second stage was that we were asked to prove that the LEA had made a mistake in their admissions procedure.

This we failed to do. (Basically because we had not submitted enough medical evidence)

We then moved onto the third stage where we were asked to submit evidence that our dd should still be admitted to the school and that the detriment to her from not being admitted would be greater than that to the other children from overcrowding.

This we managed to do. (dd is disabled and the other schools they offered did not have disabled access)

In this last part we had to show why the school we wanted was the right one for our dd's medical condition and why all the other schools they suggested were inadequate for this purpose. And I'm talking about things like no lift for a wheelchair-bound child, not things like "It's a rough school". It has to be some reason why this would be a worse choice for your particular child rather than for all the other children who have to go there- and this has to be supported by expert evidence.

I would be wary of trying to base any appeal on the idea that the school is generally inadequate/unpleasant: a) they are not going to want to hear that b) that doesn't in itself prove why your dd should get preferential treatment; someone has to attend this school.

They might want to get round the transport question by offering transport (I had to provide medical evidence that I cannot learn to drive, and evidence that dd cannot cope with long taxi journeys). And if there is a bus, then the journey won't cut any ice with them as lots of secondary school children travel further than that.

Okay.. thank you, I'll try to answer all the questions (apologies for any I miss, my computer is playing up and words jumping around!).

I have submitted my appeal based on arguments PRO the desired school, not anti the other one - I do understand where the comments on this are coming from. I shall obtain medical support asap as my DD1 has been under CAHMS (waiting for medical records to be sent to my new GP from my old one, many miles away). The reason why DD2 is in the local school and DD1 isn't is that we have just moved to the area - the school had a place in my elder child's year but not for my younger child.

We lived in the area 2 years ago before moving away and when we did DD2 attended it. DD1 attended the primary which is a feeder to the school and knows many of the children who attend it.

There is a bus provided by the LA for the children in our town who attend the allocated school. However, only 16 out of hundreds at the school live in our town and none of these are in DD1's year (year 7). DD1 would not be able to attend after school clubs, after school tuition etc if she attended the school as she would not be able to get home afterwards. Additionally, if she had to attend the doctors in our town I would not be able to get her to school afterwards due to the cost of public transport and the fact that there is only an hourly bus service. Likewise parents evenings etc. God knows what would happen to her if she attended the out of town allocated school and missed the bus home!

My intention is not to blackmail the LA or even mention that I cannot HE - I am just looking ahead in the knowledge that HE is not a feasible option.

I hope that this makes things a bit clearer!

Dd uses the disabled taxi to get to school- which means that she cannot attend out-of-school clubs etc. She just has to make sure she is not late for it. And noone else in her year travels in the taxi; in fact, it takes kids from all different schools. So I don't suppose the LEA will be swayed by this argument.

What I found was that we had to provide evidence of exactly why our preferred school was the only one that fitted dd's medical needs: so do this school offer any special counselling or anything? Or are there any reasons why travelling would exacerbate any anxiety problems?

We lost an appeal, then appealed successfully the second time around having taken the first one very much as a learning experience. In the 6 months in between those two appeals, DD and I had to get a bus across town to an unsuitable school. Geographically it wasn't very far, but it was totally different from where we lived, and the journey time could still be about 40 minutes some days. We'd either arrive vastly too late or vastly too early, depending on which bus we got. And she was only 5!

This was for KS1 so the criteria are a bit different from yours. I can't advise on going further after an unsuccessful appeal - I don't think you can go through the courts unless something totally illegal has gone on - but I can give some general advice on how to conduct your own "defence", if you like.

Be absolutely sure what point you are challenging them on. The temptation is to go for "everything but the kitchen sink" but this may not be in your interests.

Know the school you want your child to go to inside out, and argue for that, not against the other school. You should be looking for positive reasons why your child needs to attend that school as opposed tyo any other, not why your child should not go to the allocated school.

Don't let the school/LA get away with unsupported statements - you will have the opportunity at the appeal to put questions to them so use it.

An appeal is not an easy thing to go through, so good luck. This book has helped some people although I can't vouch for it personally.

Cory - That's interesting. I didn't realise the appeal process varied from one LEA to another.

Valhala - Excellent advice here (of course) from parents who've been through appeals. And to reiterate what UnquietDad said; don't make any unsubstantiated claims yourself, either. Provide evidence - from CAMHS or anyone else - to support your arguments.

We went through the appeals system when ds2 was refused a place at the secondary school we had chosen for him on the advice of the headteacher at his primary school and the headteacher of the chosen secondary school.
We did prove that they had applied their admissions criteria illegally. They had a catagory in their list of admissions criteria which gave priority to the children of members of staff and this should have been removed as it's not permitted to offer places on those grounds. We showed and they admitted that they had given a place to staff member's child to which my son should have been given preference. They still turned down our appeal and refused ds2 a place. I was in the process of going to the ombudsman but a phone call from them convinced me I was wasting my time. The school concerned was at that time being investigated for having pupil numbers vastly over it's published stated admissions figures. Ds2 had also been offered a place at another local school which dh and I were happy with so we decided not to go any further. But he was offered a place at the school he attended on appeal and it was only given because of the very poor advice we had received when choosing a school and because of what had happened at the appeal at our 1st choice school.
You need to examine the school's admissions criteria very carefully and also get as much secondary evidence as possible as to why your child would benefit from attending that school. Just saying you want her to go there and it would be more convenient is not enough as I'm sure you already know. Appeals panels can be intimidating so try to be as well prepared as possible. Good luck.

Thank you all for your input. Cory, I can see some similarities here and find what you say interesting, thank you. I must add to that that in my own case, should DD be ill or injured at the out of town school the chances are I wouldn't be able to get to her, having only the choice of an hourly bus service or a taxi - and often I don't have the money in my purse for either.

As I said, I am collecting evidence as much as possible and am getting support from my GP.

I'm not prepared to put my daughter at risk physically and emotionally in a 3rd rate school though TBH even if I did agree to send her there she would refuse to go, as she is so scared following previous experience of abuse at a school. She'd most likely just sit sobbing (and you try dragging an 11 year old down the street to the bus stop whilst shoving her school uniform on her!). Problem is, how do you put this over to an appeal panel without making it sound like blackmail?! I guess the answer is "You can't", hence I haven't even tried.

valhala on Mon 08-Dec-08 12:07:41

"I'm not prepared to put my daughter at risk physically and emotionally in a 3rd rate school though TBH even if I did agree to send her there she would refuse to go, as she is so scared following previous experience of abuse at a school. She'd most likely just sit sobbing (and you try dragging an 11 year old down the street to the bus stop whilst shoving her school uniform on her!). Problem is, how do you put this over to an appeal panel without making it sound like blackmail?! I guess the answer is "You can't", hence I haven't even tried."

You get a medical expert (your GP or a counsellor) to write a letter to the effect that your dd has suffered emotional damage following bullying at school and therefore needs to be at a school that is smaller/has a special support programme/where she can be with people she already knows (whatever you can think of that your chosen school offers).

Don't think the transport argument would really cut it. Loads of parents work more than an hours drive from their children's school- they wouldn't see that as unusual; in an emergency, they'd just have to keep her in medical room or get a member of staff to take her to A&E. This situation must be common in the rural districts.

If anything happened to my dd in her urban school and I was at work it would certainly take me well over an hour to get to her; that is accepted. Schools are staffed, somebody else would have to deal with her.

But I was able to argue that she needed to go to the same school as her friend because she is emotionally damaged by having an invisible disability and having been doubted by the medical profession. I got the hospital counsellor to write in support of this- my just saying it probably wouldn't have helped.

(sadly, I have spent a lot of time dragging an 11yo down the street as dd is disabled with chronic pain and panic attacks)

Thank you again Cory. I'm very grateful to you as you are making the whole scenario clearer in my mind and enabling me to remember the points I want to make.

Re the distance from my home and the other school and getting there if my DD is ill or injured- it's not that I might not be able to get to her for an age that is my concern, it's that I might not be able to get to her AT ALL if I haven't the fare to do so. Unfortunately, having paid the bills and bought the shopping, this is generally the case for at least half of each week.

This needs to go in media/non-member requests, with £30 paid to MN.

Hi I hv been turned down school for my fourth child last year. My first child got into the school when I leaved inside of the catchment area, bt the same year we moved about 250 yards away from there. After two I also compalined about bullying but I was called a LiAR by the headteacher and was told I was using "Cheap Tactics" to get my son into the other school. After my first appeal Which was a flaw on the councils side bcause they used photographs to prove the school was full and also the had miss measured the distance to my house, I went to the Ombdusman and She offered me a second appeal. At the 2nd appeal I added more letters from the best consultants and my gp and also the social servies, I went in a wheel chair I was treated badly I was kept waiting outside for half an hour and then again half an hour in the corridor. And I was very unwell and had an operation the following day. The panel didnt listern to anything i had to say, they even said my son was happy at school bcause the head had said, my representation from parent partnership even read a very emotional leter from my son, but to no avail. my sons APPEAL HAD BEEN TURNED DOWN. I now put the complaint to the ombdusman she had spoted many many mistakes the panel and the council hv mad, she says there are grounds for third appeal../. But can I go thru it .... Am disabled single parent with three sick children

i my self have just lost a school appeal for my 4year old to start a local school which hes 8 year old sister attends . they have offered him a place which just falls under 2 miles away which is two buses for us ,because its 1.8 mile he dont get travel expences i cant afford them my self as im receiving benefits at the moment and im a lone parent and have no other means of transport either im finding this really a stressful ordeal please is there any advice or help out there for me as i feel like im alone in this

There are some incorrect statements on the appeals process here. There is also some good advice.

As this is an appeal for a secondary school, you DO NOT have to show that there has been a mistake in order to win. You have to show that the prejudice to your child through not being admitted to the preferred school outweighs the prejudice to the school.

The appeal is a two stage process. In the first stage the LA present their case for not admitting the child. In the second stage the parents present their case for admitting the child.

The decision making is also a two stage process. In the first stage the panel consider whether the LA has made any mistakes and whether it has proved that admitting the child will cause prejudice to the school. If there is a mistake or the LA hasn't proved that the school will be prejudiced, the appeal is successful and the child is admitted. If the panel decide that the LA has proved its case, they then move on to consider whether the prejudice to the child outweighs the prejudice to the school.

If you lose your appeal you have two possible routes forward. Firstly, you can refer the case to the Local Government Ombudsman. This doesn't cost anything and is free. However, they will only overturn the result if there was something wrong with the way the appeal was conducted (the entire appeal process, not just the hearing) or there were faults in the panel's decision making process. They will not overturn an appeal result just because they disagree with the panel's judgement. If they do overturn the result, the most likely outcome is that they will order another appeal.

The alternative to going to the LGO is going for judicial review. That is slower and costs money. You will need legal advice if you go down this route. There are very few admission cases where this is appropriate.

If you do lose your appeal you are in a difficult situation. The LA has offered you a place which you have rejected. That means the LA has discharged its legal responsibility towards you. They are under no obligation to find your child an alternative place. They may be willing to help by, for example, telling you which schools still have places. If you find them all unacceptable I'm afraid there is nothing you can do about it. You cannot force the LA to offer you a place at a school that is full other than by winning an appeal.

If you are prosecuted because your child is not receiving any education you are, of course, allowed to defend yourself. However, saying that the LA has not allocated a place in a school you consider to be suitable is unlikely to convince the court.

hi, my sons prefered school apeal was turned down so im home educating him, theres no way im sending him to the school alocated.does anyone no if hel now be put on the waiting list for his prefered school or do i have to do that myself, im also going to try again next year to get him into the prefered school can i do that,

He should be put on the waiting list automatically but you should. Some don't seem to be very good at this. The school or LA (whichever is looking after the list - depends on the type of school) should also be able to tell you where you are on the waiting list, but remember that you can go down the list as well as up.

You are entitled to one appeal per academic year, so you can try again in September. However, without knowing your case, the fact you've already lost one appeal for this school suggests you will need to have a better case in order to succeed. What was your case? We may be able to help you improve it.

hi the case was that my sons got a half brother that goes to the school i dont want him in and hes never had any contact with that family as his dad was abusive and raped me,he woyuld have been picked on by this boy and harrased by him also my son dint want to be in same school as him cos of the stress it would have caused him, also the school i wanted him in was a sports collage and my son is extremly good at sport hes in a basketball team and wanted to be in that school becouse of this and also all his freinds are at that prefered school but cos i live around 3 miles from the school they said its not in his catchment, also the school was full.

my brother had not been refused: in fact no judgement had been given when the school term started.

my mums appeal was on the grounds of SEN to get him into a school out-of-catchement. She won, by sending multitudinous letters by recorded delivery to all parties requesting info..- they kept on offering a place at an unsuitable school.

At start of term my brother stayed on at his junior school (so, still in education, but a conspicuous challenge to the authority to sort itself out)

He got a place at another school (not the first one Mum went for, but a very good one and suitable) 3 weeks after term started.

It can be done. Hope this helps a bit.

can i apply again for the school i want my son in in september, or will i have to appeal again?im goin to keep trying till i get him in if not im home schooling him for good,

You are entitled to one appeal every academic year so you can appeal again in September. You should make sure your son is on the waiting list as well.

However, to be honest, if you live 3 miles from this school it is unlikely you will ever get in. A case based on the possibility of your son being picked on by his half brother is unlikely to succeed unless you get a sympathetic panel. You either need a much better case or a plan B.

You say you will home educate him for good if you can't get him into your preferred school. Is that really the best option for your son? Are you sure his education won't suffer if you go down that route?

Have you discussed the situation with the allocated school? They may be able to reassure you about the measures they would take to avoid any issues. Have you looked at any alternative schools? There may be another school that you would consider acceptable where you stand a better chance of getting in.

Does anyone know if Valhala's appeal was upheld?

By some ruddy miracle, yes it was Gymbob.