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Original poster

Getting into Oxford.....

185 replies

CrushWithEyeliner · 06/12/2008 11:29

My friends' son has not passed the entrance to Oxford.
He is super clever, v good at maths and has has a private ed all his life with great results all around. He is articulate but not overly cerebral or intellectual, he finds certain subjects v easy and knows it, he is also really interested in banking. investment management and that kind of career.

I was quite surprised when he didn't make it, and want to know a bit more as to why. I don't want to go into all the details with the parents as I can tell they are quite gutted.
Does anyone know what they are looking for at this exam/ interview and what kind of student gets into Oxford - it seems being clever isn't enough..does this sounds utterly naive?!

OP posts:
VirginBoffinMum · 07/12/2008 12:37

I don't think I had a passion just for one subject at 17, I was more interested in having an internal intellectual life, and pulling different subjects together where I could.

bloss · 07/12/2008 13:54

Message withdrawn

TinselianAstra · 07/12/2008 15:37

I went to Cambridge specifically because I could do Natural Sciences (pick and mix science degree). So it's not all about havinga very specific passion. At the age of 17 your son will have to choose a subject (or of course there is the option of taking a gap year to think about it), but that doesn't mean he has to giev up on other things. (I feel safe in revealing that bit of personal info because about 600 people do it per year )

No idea how/why I got in paritcularly, I've been watching this thread and I'm not really sure which of the criteria applies. Smiling and trying to sound like I would be interesting to talk to is probably where I would score highest. Intellectual rigour? Not so sure.

And I did have an interview with the general admissions tutor or whoever he was, as well as with people specific to the subject. It was very strange, I have no idea what he was looking for or even if his opinion held any weight at all. We just had a chat.

Original poster
CrushWithEyeliner · 07/12/2008 18:58

This has really been interesting reading.

I am rather surprised that him expressing an interest in Investment banking/ Management could have been a mark against him. I would think that the application of your passion in the "real" world would be admirable, rather than a musical genius becoming a piano tuner like someone mentioned. Having said this my Monkey Music teacher studied Music at Oxford .

I have watched him grow up and would say he is a highly ambitious, slightly, ok very inflated ego; always boasted of passing exams really well and doing no revision, that kind of thing. He wants to be an IB because he wants to make loads of money and buy a house in Kensington he said to me. Good lord, reading this over I hope he didn't say this stuff in interview! He is a nice boy really, just very, well very "Public school" in it's pejorative sense. However I have met loads of city bankers who are like this and studied at Oxford...hmmm confusing...

OP posts:
lazymumofteenagesons · 07/12/2008 19:02

Just been reading a few of these out to DS1 who I thought was interested in applying next year (currently at a leading public school who last year got 88 places). He now says I'm not sure about Oxbridge cos I don't want to go to a university where the majority of students come from schools like mine where there are so many boys who have no idea about life outside this priveleged bubble and don't want to know.
Does this mentality come over at interviews and is it frowned upon?

hoxtonchick · 07/12/2008 19:07

ha, am just like trillian, studied natural sciences. don't think i came across as having a great passion in the interview (& was pooled anyway), but must have done something right. am quite personable i suppose!

hoxtonchick · 07/12/2008 19:08

that's tinselian.... and it was cambridge.

whoohoo · 07/12/2008 20:00

LazyMum - PLEASE don't let your DS be put off and do show him the website of a modern, progressive and inclusive Cambridge college like Robinson

The great thing about my own experience at Cambridge was that you stood beside others who were there because they were clever and committed, and no real other reason. No one cared where you were from and you could just get stuck in, as much or as little as you wanted.

CRUSHEDeyeliner - it seemed that the big thing at Cambridge when I was there was to feign as little preparation/work as possible, and then be really modest about getting good grades! Boasting about good grades was definitely not the done thing! I wonder if he came over as a bit OTT and, possibly obnoxiously, arrogant?

squeakypop · 07/12/2008 20:06

Thank you everyone for this thread.

My DS1 (in lower 6th) is predicted 5 A-grades in his AS levels, so is of the academic standard for the top universities.

He is totally non-forthcoming about degree choices and it is so incredibly frustrating. I think I need to introduce the idea of a reading list for him over the Christmas holidays.

I just wish he would make up his mind. I knew what I wanted to do when I was 15 and went to uni at 17.

nkf · 07/12/2008 20:07

You've said it yourself. He's not overly cerebreal or intellectual.

nkf · 07/12/2008 20:07

cerebral even.

nkf · 07/12/2008 20:11

Having good A levels doesn't make you passionate about your subject or about intellectual activity. You might just be bright and well educated.

lazymumofteenagesons · 07/12/2008 20:12

I think he feels that socially it will be a continuation of the school he attends and he wants to be with a wider spectrum of society. He even commented that he thought most of the state school pupils will come from the posher grammer schools.

I think he is going through a stage of rebelling against the class he has spent his life so far with - a type of inverted snobbery at the age of 17!

bagsforlife · 07/12/2008 20:23

It's interesting that, after spending 7 years or whatever at leading public school, son of lazymum wants to be with a wider spectrum of society. I wonder why that is? Seriously.

Hopefully, when he does go to university, Oxbridge or not, he will meet lots of people from different backgrounds. And realise that there are lots of intelligent people from all kinds of different schools.

Nighbynight · 07/12/2008 20:30

lazymum - I also came from that privileged bubble. I met more state school people at Oxford than Id ever met before!
If he wants to break out of the bubble he will, but an oxford degree is an advantage through his life.

Judy1234 · 07/12/2008 20:42

50% of people at Oxbridge are from state schools and not all those are grammar school rich children. Plenty are there from abroad too. My daughters met more people at university from state schools than before too although they weren't at Oxbridge and even though a lot of their friends out of school went to state schools.

But you can't force teenagers to do things. I would have preferred mine to try for Oxbridge and they didn't want to and it hasn't really mattered at all so far. It certainly wasn't something I was expecting they would do as I didn't anyway.

TinselianAstra · 07/12/2008 20:53

If DS is worried about too many posh people then Durham is the place to avoid...

I think pretending not to work is a boy thing. The other extreme was the competitive revision, where the boys would have 'exam beards' - too busy to shave apparently

lazymumofteenagesons · 07/12/2008 20:57

Bagsforlife, he appreciates the education he is getting but has from the start at 13 complained of the narrowness socially at the school and sometimes has experienced quite bigotted behaviour.
Teachers have remarked that in his school environment he is a breath of fresh air as he does not display the well known arrogance of most of the boys and is much more down to earth and open minded. Unfortunately, his type are in a minority, but he never wanted to change schools and thrives within the academic rigour.

JumpingJellyfish · 07/12/2008 21:08

I went to Oxford (read Biological Sciences) but I am still not sure to this day why I got in over other applicants. I was a straight-A student but as others have said this is not the only criteria they seem to employ upon selection. I had two pretty tough interviews which tested my general biological knowledge, how abreast I was of current issues in science but also had to do some on-the-spot problem solving- I guess they wanted to see how my mind works/how logical I am (was!). But I think they also needed to gauge my enthusiasm for my proposed subject as Oxbridge I think still prefers students who really love their subjects. So perhaps wanting to follow a career in investment banking at such a young age could be against you... But saying that it does show ambition! I think an ability to know your own weaknesses was also important- some questions completely stumped me and I just had to say I didn't know the answer- in fact I came away convinced I wouldn't have got in so it was great shock to receive the latter the following week (I had no real ambition at the time to study at Oxford but had been persauded to apply).

Incidentally I attended state schools (comprehensive too, not grammar) but at my college ex state school students were still very much a minority. Maybe that played in my favour but I like to think my ability/enthusiasm got me in!

Litchick · 07/12/2008 21:09

And Lazymum - don't forget to tell him about the kids at the other end of the spectrum. I had never met anyone from independent school when I went to Uni. Hell, I had never met anyone outside my home town!!!

JumpingJellyfish · 07/12/2008 21:14

PS. I do think I was far more honest in my interview questions because I felt no real pressure to get into Oxford- in fact I'd wanted to go to another uni- so I was not really thinking much about the reality of potentially getting in. Think this definitely played in my favour. Once I got offered a place though I was over the moon (almost as much as my parents, who hadn't been to university and couldn't believe our luck!)

Piffle · 07/12/2008 21:15

Yes here to grammar
No to being rich... Unless comfy and solvent defines rich?

bloss · 07/12/2008 21:48

Message withdrawn

HolidaysQueen · 07/12/2008 22:24

I have no real idea why I got into Cambridge - I can still remember my interviews and I really don't think I said anything that revolutionary or amazingly intellectual. However, I do remember having really good chats in the interviews - one about my subject, and one about why I wanted to go to Cambridge - where I tried to come up with different viewpoints and come at the questions from an unusual angle. So maybe a good rapport with the interviewer, being personable, but also having something interesting to say is a big plus - a bit like hoxton chick and tinselian have mentioned. I also think a fortuitous choice of college for my subject worked as there ended up being only 3 people for 1 place so the odds were more in my favour. I'd definitely recommend anyone do research on that before applying as the right college pick can make a huge difference to your chances.

lazymum - please reassure your DS that Cambridge has plenty of people who are not from a very narrow public school background. There are such people, but they are very easy to avoid if you wish, and there are some truly amazing, fascinating, interesting people there. I am from a fairly average family and went to a small grammar school in Lancashire. My grandfathers worked in cotton mills and peat bogs. I was not that unusual

I think the investment banking thing wouldn't necessarily be frowned upon, but I doubt it would win the applicant any brownie points in interview. It would just sort of be irrelevant to whether they got in or not I think.

bagsforlife · 07/12/2008 22:26

Good for him, lazymum!!

Saves me from one of my 'come the revolution' moments.