Once the food is sorted let's.....

[happymerryberries]

.....keep the pressure on the government to sort out schools.

Let's have an end to kids who's behaviour is out of control, wrecking their chance of education and that of everyone in the classroom along with them.

Let's have an end to the pretence that inclusion can work for every child and stop the closure of special schools.

Let's have an end to education for SN on a shoe string budget, a policy that leave the most vulnerable out in the cold and adds to their problems.

Let's have a return to the realisation that rights come with responsibilites.

Let's have real funding for schools so that they can afford little luxuries like books.

Let's have specialist teachers in every school that can work with kids with EBD so that we can help them, and in doing so help all the other kids that suffer their behaviour.

Let's stop pretending that all kids will get 5 A* to C grades and get them literate and numerate and able to interact with other people in a reasonable way....then teach them French and Science.

Once Jamie has sorted out the food, lets sort out the rest!

Some form of science I can agree with, but the NC wwhich you were arguing in favour of in unattainable for many kids

The main reason that my kids go to a private school is because we were not able to get a Year 7 place at the comprehensive 100 yards from our house when we move mid-year. The prep school was the only acceptable option to us given that we had the resources to fund it.

I happen to love the school for many reasons and am working towards getting all my kids into the system. It's not just about class sizes - it's the whole ethos.

I never argued in favour of the current NC!

I quite agree. Ethos is everything. But also vital is having kids in small enough numbers so that you can actualy teach them something. For that matter so is having kids in the class who are prepared to learn, and a school with a realistic sanctions policy.

I simply fail to see the point of making children follow the current inclusion poilcy at all cost line. Which is being done as a sop to equal rights but is a cynical cost cutting policy.

I am very interested in SN, as I said I'm good at working with these kids. But what I can't do is teach them to read. I'm a science teacher. I have no training in synthetic phonics. These kids need specialist teaching from people who know what they are doing. I know far more than most about a range of SN (in no small part because of MN) but I don't know enough to help some of thses kids in the ways they need.

We have 5 million people in the UK who cannot read and write. They need to learn. And they need that a lot more than having to sit and try to calculate moments with me, or find out what happens in the electrochemical series.

and sorry that shuld have been classes of 24, not 14

Ameriscot - I never said you were out of touch, just asked a question. As when Ia m talking about my classes I am not talking about an average run of the mill school, with a fair shair of puoils with SN or behaviour issues. I am talking of a hell of a lot of pupils with behavioural issues, mostly of the non diagnosed form.

Oh for smaller class sizes. At the prison I have no more than 10 men in a classroom; the education system there believes that that sis a fair number if they are to get enoiugh individual assistance and teaching in their studies.

Yet, for our children - we put them in classes of 32/33 and think they'll be fine. Utter rubbish - it doesn't work. I have less than 2 mninutes to spend on each child in a lesson. I had 33 Y9s - a VERY challenging class - see my many threads of getting assistance; even theexceptional LEA Advisor struggled with them and even had a heart attack almost immediately after teaching them. This number of pupils in a very small hot classroom, where only two windows opened a crack (bars on outside stopped them) and with 18 computers in the room only. It was a no win situation.

No, I only appear to be out of touch...

Actually HMB I think you have been exceedinly rude to Ameriscot who did not infer at all that you are only interested in teaching A* pupils.

Do you always speak in such abusive terms to people who disagree with you?

I'm actually quite saddened at the way you have 'spoken' to her!

If someone had spoken that way to you no doubt we'd have seen another founce by now!

hay ho, just put it down to my being more than a little tetcy tonight I suppost. TBH, I don't care. Nothing on MN can compare to the stunning little charmer od 16 I taught this afternoon who was shouthing how 'X loves the ltaste of cum in his mouth'.

I'm afraid the inference was clear to me that I was simply not up to the 'hard work' of teaching difficult kids. Whic I know not to be true.

ASmeriscot is very good at ingnoting points that she doesn't have an answer to. On anther thread, she ignores the fact that 60% plus of patent who don't turn up for parents evening because she knows that 'most parents care', or the parents of the kids I teacvh who can be bothered to wash or feed them properly.

But there you go she knows better than I do even if she has never seen thses kids.

And she knows that I don't want to teach a subject because I think it is 'hard' not because I find that the children end up even more disafected and switched off by the curriculum.

Bottom line is this. We have 5 million people in this country who cannot read and write. Teaching thema nixed curriculum isn't helping them. These kids get further and further behind each year.

But what do I know? I'll just go an prepare a lesson for my ' beloved' y9....another little snide number from ameriscot

But HMB - you've made some excellent points but totally detracted from them by the way you 'spoke' to Ameriscot.

TBH - the way you spoke to her is similar to that language that you would complain of in the children you teach!

If their parents spoke to others like that just because they disagreed with their views you would be the first to complain about setting a poor example!

Get a grip, HMB.

First of all, you know as well as me that Mnet can be very fast moving and it is very hard to keep up with all the threads. It took all my energy today keeping up with the "private school from reception" thread, that I had to drop the "no organic food" and "Jamie/asthma" threads that I previously contributed on.

Secondly, I'm not going to comment on anecdotal information. I wasn't in the parent/teacher conference with you to be able to assess what was going on. It would have been condescending to you to suggest that there was any other scenario other than the one you provided.

You were the one who said that teaching science is too hard to low achieving kids. I'm sorry, but while I agree it is hard, hard things are part of life. And because something is hard, it doesn't mean it's not the right thing to try - narrow gates and all that.

You seem to be missing the point utterly. There is no point in teaching science in the NC to some children because they simply cannot access it in any way that leads to sucess from their view point. I'm not anti teaching it to the because it is hard work for me but because it is counterproductive to them. All that they learn is that they cannot do it.

They don't need any more of that from the school system. They have already had 7 years before they get to me. And by the time they are in secondary school they fall behind their peers more and more with each passing year.

Teaching them science isn't going to get them a job, being able to read is going to get them a job, or al least enable the to claim benefit. they need to be able to add up two, two digit numbers, so that they can work out if someone had short changed them. They need to get real, meaninful vocational training so they can be the plumber that I phone when my pipes arnt working, or the carpenter that helps to build a house.

What they need is an education policy that meets their needs not some nonsence that 'Everyone can do everything'. I can't and neither can anyone else.

If I had a child of 14 with a reading age of 6 (and I have taught one) I would want that child to learn to read. First of all, intensivly. And when they can access the curriculum, feed them into the system. At the moment we just waste time that they don't have.

That they waste my time is faintly irritating. I get paid after all. But that they waste their time is unforgivable

hmb (genuine question) wouldn't that child be statemented & given a special learning plan? or is the system just not geared up for him?

Yes he was. He is still falling further and further behind his peers. He doesn't even warent 1 to 1 in all lessons. He wasn't withdrawn from lessons (inclusion at all costs) and so had to 'read' set texts in English, calculate Venn diagrams in maths and learn about photosynthesis etc in science. Ultimate irony, he also had to learn French

I don't believe you have spoken out of turn at all hmb. You answered questions, and the insunuations put against you were insulting to say the least.

Now I am remembering again why I am better off out of it all.

Regardless of any new points put forward I still believe that the current crriculum is NOT geared up for today's children at all. We let kids, aged 15/16, leave school poorly educatied in the way of the world. Yeah, some may just be able to tell you the difference between input and output dives, or whatever...but they'd be better off nowing how to read and write, how to do simple numeracy, how to use a cash card and get a bank account, how to live in the real world. The system does not do this; it doesn't allow teaches to use their professional capacity to work on more relevant topics with their pupils.. It teaches kids how to pass exams on the whole.

I now teach and deal with men who have gone through this current system and I see men who cannot function in the real world. How did learning about xxxx help them?

xxx - fill this in yourself with something from any subject you like really. Too many things to choose from.

Hulababy you are not seriously saying that calling someone an arsehole because they disagree with your opinion is a reasonable response

Missed that bit, BUT I am assuming (as I missed it, and read the first bits only) that this did come AFTER all the accusations and insunations aimed at HMB, which were somehow deemed fine.

Disagreeing is one thing; insunations and accusations are another completely different one - especially after a long, hard day teaching.

Been here before on the education threads...some people can't seem to see how bad the behaviour of some kids at school really is, and will not realise that teachers may actually know what they are talking about when they say things need to change.

FGS, I have now LEFT school teaching because of it all. It really IS that bad! Teachers are leaving in droves, even NQTs.

No, that was because she sugested that I would swear in front of the children I teach. I was being more restrained than I felt like. She was casting doubt on my teaching practice. What I chose to say on this forum ismy own afair, we are all adults. I have nver sworn in front of a chid. Just wish that I could say the same about them.

Oh, please, cut the melodrama, Hulababy. Read my posts and draw your own conclusions.

Same to you, HMB (ie drop the melodrama) - read my posts and stop taking umbrage for the sake of it. I did not cast aspersions on your teaching practices - you did that to yourself. I merely said that I believe that all children deserve to be taught science - you don't agree - fine. Let's talk about the reasons behind each opinion and drop the personal attacks.

Well, I've put my reasons. Don't think that you have other than to say 'science is important'

Woah THIS thread hasn't been very edifying.

I know some of you have had a bad day's teaching but Ameriscot is only trying to add her perfectly legimate voice to the debate - should be encouraged, surely?

Thankyou, MP and Soapbox.

HMB, I have not embellished my points because it doesn't seem the thread is quite ready for this yet. Of course the reasoning behind my opinion goes way deeper than "just do it". Give me some credit, please.