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preschool

22 replies

baggie · 13/03/2003 13:14

Help! My eldest daughter has just turned 2 and a half and people at our local playgroups have started to ask me when she starts at preschool. She is quickly running out of peers as they begin to go to preschool.Although she appears confident with me around, she is very senstive and has not experienced being looked after by anyone other than immediate family members. I am unsure whether I want her to go but do not want to appear overly protective. Can anyone give me any support/advice?

OP posts:
Bugsy · 13/03/2003 13:52

Baggie, you must do what you think is best for your daughter. Unless you decide to home educate then at some point your daughter will have to go to school but this is another two plus years away.
If you are enjoying being with your daughter and she with you then there is no requirement for her to go to preschool. Some playgroups operate a lovely system whereby up until 2.5 yrs children must be accompanied by a carer but after that they can be left. Maybe you could find such a playgroup and just slowly start to distance yourself from your dd and then maybe just leave for 10/15 mins. I think this is a lovely way of introducing a toddler to the concept of being left as it happens within a really familiar and secure environment.

Veggie · 13/03/2003 15:34

My daughter (2.2) started pre-school a few weeks ago. At first she screamed because she didn't want to stay there without me. But now she asks me every morning whether she's going to play with the children. On the two mornings she does, she walks in there with a big smile on her face.

janh · 13/03/2003 17:20

Hi, baggie. 2.5 is only a minimum age for starting playgroup/pre-school, isn't it? Unless your DD starts to miss having friends to play with at home - and they wouldn't all be going every day anyway, surely? - I wouldn't be in a rush to send her, they grow up a lot between 2.5 and 3.

At least wait until after Easter, and then if you can leave her gradually, the way Bugsy describes, it should be easier for both of you. You aren't being overly protective, just sensitive to her feelings.

I pushed my DD1 into playgroup at 2.5, partly because I was expecting DD2. I made the mistake of sneaking out when she seemed happily occupied, she missed me about 2 minutes later and fretted for an hour - and she was still not really settled there by the end of the summer term, when she was 3.25. (So when you do leave her, make sure you tell her you are going - in a cheerful kind of way - even if she cries she will know what's going on and won't feel abandoned and that she has to watch you like a hawk in future!)

The following term (nearly 3.5!) she started at nursery school and settled in immediately - partly because it was a different place, I suppose, but also because she had grown up so much over the summer holidays.

The main thing is, do what you feel comfortable with, not what other people tell you to do.

janh · 13/03/2003 17:24

Also, have just realised, assuming her birthday is in September, she won't start school until she is almost 5, in Sept 05 - if they start pre-school too soon (and 2.5 years is her whole lifetime over again) they can get a bit fed up with it all before they get to actual school! ("Been there, done that..."

Skara · 13/03/2003 18:46

Hi Baggie, my eldest started preschool last September at 2.5 and it was a big error of judgement on my part. I had intended for her to start this Easter when she'd be just over 3 but I was offered a cancellation place and the pressure from all the other mums made me feel I ought to get her in there. She cried every time I took her from September till Christmas. I felt like c**p and a dreadful mother but I knew that I couldn't pull her out as I thought that'd cause problems with school in future. I should add that she was fine when I picked her up and seemed happy enough, but still...Janh is right - it's a loooong time till she starts school proper and I've heard from quite a few people that they can get bored. What's interesting is that the main arguers against sending my daughter were my mum,MIL and grandmothers who of course have the wisdom of experience. You won't appear overly protective, you'll look like you know your own mind and know your daughter and what she needs. And as preschool is only mornings or afternoons I'm sure you'll manage to find some of her friends are around to play with at some point in the week.

KMG · 13/03/2003 18:47

Go and visit the playgroup to get a feel for it, and then make your decision. DS1 went to playgroup at 2.5 'because it was expected', in my heart of hearts I guess I knew he wasn't ready, (had an 8-month old at home too, so I was!) He went two sessions a week for a month, but clearly wasn't enjoying it ... he was happy to go, happy to be left, but was always crying when I picked him up. Don't get me wrong it was a fantastic playgroup, and I had great confidence in the staff, but he was just too young. We decided to send him to a registered childminder, who happened to be our nextdoor neighbour!, for just 2 hrs each week, and that was for him a more gentle step to being away from mum. Eventually he went back to playgroup at 3 yrs 2 months, and settled fine.

Sorry I've gone on - basically you do what you know is right for your child - they are all different, and not all are ready for playgroup at 2.5, and they don't HAVE to go, so there's no hurry. After ds1 I vowed I wouldn't send ds2 so young, but then it became very apparent that he was VERY ready for playgroup, and he bounced in aged 2.5 full of confidence, and never caused us any worry at all!

jac34 · 15/03/2003 13:46

My boys will be starting full time school in September, a month away from their 5th birthday.
They haven't been to pre school or state nursery, they do however, attend a Day care nursery 2 days a week. They have no problem mixing with other children, know their letters, numbers, shapes,colours etc, and are very independent and confident.
As I and my husband work P/T, we chose to have them home with us for as long as we could.
I have had people comment, "Surely they should be in school by now", but I just ignore it, It's our choise !!!!

webmum · 15/03/2003 14:14

May I ask for some information here about playgroups, preschools and teh like?? I'm not british and am not familiar with the system at all, and I thouroughly confused. DD is 22 months and going to private day nursery 2.5 days a week when I work. She loves it there and I am happy about the environment.
A friend of mine though said that at playgroup they learn different things and it might be good for her to go on the days she's not at her current nursery.
Also her best friend will be going when she's 2.5 so I was wondering whether it's worth it, or should I not bother? And what is the difference between a playgroup and a state nursery?? LOts of thanks for your help!!

KMG · 15/03/2003 14:38

Gosh - what a lot of questions. I'll give it a go:

Daycare nurseries - generally will have slightly higher ratios of staff to children than playgroups. (Usually staffed by people with NNEB qualifications or NVQs in childcare). They are geared up to have children for much longer days, so tend to have facilities for rest/nap times, mealtimes, etc. Many playgroups don't. I would expect any nursery to be providing all the 'learning experiences' that a playgroup does. (Except they won't get to know their local peers.) Usually much more expensive than a playgroup.

Playgroups have children just for c.2.5 - 3 hr sessions usually, and are focussed around this. Staff have similar qualifications to at nurseries. Minimum ratios are 1 adult per 4 children aged 2.5-3, and 1 adult per 8 children aged 3-5. Some playgroups do not have fulltime accommodation (i.e. they use a church hall or whatever), and so do not have the facilities most fulltime nurseries do have. They are also usually a LOT cheaper than a nursery, (£3 - £4.50 per session here).

Oh dear - this makes me sound really down on playgroups, doesn't it? I'm not. They're great. Both my boys went to playgroups.

Finally state nursery. This will almost always have a qualified teacher in charge, (i.e. educated to degree level and beyond), an educationalist, and the aims are rather different. Minimum ratios are very high - usually 26 children with 1 teacher and 1 NNEB, but in practice (IME) there is often another adult or two. Again sessions will be short - usually 2.5 hrs each day, and usually you have to commit to going every day each week, as 'class dynamics' are very important, having the same group of children and relating to them.

Most daycare nurseries will provide 'literacy/numeracy' etc., for older children. But the standard does vary a lot, and you need to bear in mind the different training backgrounds of the staff. (OK shoot me down in flames everbody!)

Hope that helps!

Moomin · 15/03/2003 15:18

I'm a bit confused! We've put dd's name down at her intended primary school's pre-school group, and we've been told she'll start here after Easter before she's 5, in April 2006. OK so far?! I take it she'll then be here until she starts school in January 2007, when she'll be 5 years and 4 months. Does she then stay in this class for more than the rest of the academic year?

And where in all this do the "free" places for 3 and 4 year olds come in? Will she be going to a different play group from about 3 (or whenever we decide she's ready) for the half day sessions and stay there until she starts at pre-school? Sorry to be a bit thick

janh · 15/03/2003 15:21

Hi, webmum. KMG has covered it all pretty well but there is a difference between daycare nursery and what she called state nursery, or nursery school - daycare is mostly about looking after children, nursery school is more about teaching them - a good nursery school is similar to a Reception class, but pitched lower as the children are younger. A good playgroup will be like this too. (Also state nursery school used to be completely free, unlike playgroup, then when they brought in nursery vouchers both places took them - for children of 4 and over - just realised I have no idea how this works now, is state nursery school still free?)

Of course there are private nursery schools too, usually (?) attached to private schools, I think they cost a lot more.

Some primary schools have a nursery class attached, which is great for the children who are going to join the school as they become familiar with the place and the people.

Having a summer birthday, your DD will start school when she is just past 4, and possibly would benefit from some kind of structured group learning from when she is around 3 - but if you like having her at home, and do learning activities with her, being at the nursery will prepare her just as well for being at school. (If she misses seeing her best friend then you might want to think about it sooner if she can go on the days that suit you. You'll see less of her though...)

janh · 15/03/2003 15:28

Moomin, sorry, I'm confused too - if your DD will be 5.4 in Jan 07 then shouldn't she start in Reception in Sept 06, as a "rising 5", so she should go into pre-school a year or so before that,in Sept 05 (or Jan 06), when she is nearly 4 (or just past 4)? (Is her birthday August or September? Makes a big difference, if you are in the UK anyway!)

janh · 15/03/2003 17:46

Oops - when I said UK I really meant not Scotland (their year starts in January,doesn't it?)

Moomin · 15/03/2003 18:38

I'm so crap at this! Sorry! Dd will be 5 on 10th Sept 2006. I didn't think she could start Year 1 until she was actually 5, even though she'll be 5 within a week or so of term starting.

The pre-school thing I was on about was the nursery class attached to her school. Could she start there when she's (nearly) 4 in Sept 2005? I was under the impression she couldn't start until she was ACTUALLY 4, as in Jan or Easter 2006. Do you see what I mean? Up until then I was assuming she'd be at another nursery/playgroup. Help!

KMG · 15/03/2003 18:54

Moomin - the big confusion is that different counties have different systems. What you are talking about sounds familiar from where we used to live (Oxfordshire), few counties are like this now though. I have friends in Maidenhead, Berks who have same system.

So children go to school the term after they are 5 - this is the latest possible time to meet legal requirements. So yes, if indeed your county is this sort of system, your dd will start school Jan 2007. She will have 2 terms of 'reception' and then go into yr 1 in Sep 2007. Some children in her academic year (with summer birthdays) will start school straight into Yr 1 in Sep 2007, so she will have more time at school than them.

Are you with me so far?

Nursery varies even within systems. Where we were in Oxfordshire children were given 3 terms of nursery, or 4 if there was space. So you work back a year or more from when they start school. But it all depends on funding, and things are changing all the time - it's a long way off for you, and things might change a LOT before then.

Free places also vary from county to county. Some places get free places from the term after they are 3, some from the term in which they are 4 ... again, ask locally nearer the time!

Hope that helps

KMG · 15/03/2003 18:57

JanH - yes state nursery is still free.

The system you describe so well re school starts etc. is common in much of the UK, but is by no means standard, and some places can be very different. Having moved Counties we know this all to well - ds1 and ds2 are both summer birthdays, but ds2 will have a whole extra year at fulltime school than ds2.

janh · 15/03/2003 19:50

KMG, thanks for that, I didn't realise there are still counties which start them after they are 5.

My cousin and I have boys the same age with July birthdays, in Lancs mine started Reception in Sept aged 4 and 6 weeks and had 3 terms, in Leics hers started the following Easter aged 4 and 9 months and had one term. They are now coming up to 15 and there is no discernible difference, they got identical (good) SATs results last summer, which I hope will be a comfort to anybody worrying about their children starting late and missing out, or starting early and being traumatised!

susanmt · 15/03/2003 20:50

My dd was 3 a month ago and is entitled to start free preschool after the Easter holidays - and she's going to start then. We are exceptionally lucky. Our local Croileagan (Gaelic for nursery) caters for children from birth. THe nothers and babies/toddlers group meets there twice a week. When the children turn two they can then go to up to 3 sessions of 2 hours in the afternoons, no parents. Just the 2 year olds are there, and those who have turned 3 and are waiting for the next 'intake' to the full preschool programme. These 3 sessions cost the amazing sum of £6 for all 3! The term after your 3rd birthday then Croileagan proper starts - every morning for 3.5 hours (you can take them out after the free 2.5 hours or pay £5 a week to leave them in).
For everything from the babies&toddlers group to the preschool the staff are the same, full time employed by our local council to run it. So my 2 have known the play leader and her 2 assisitants pretty much from birth.
As for school, I have a choice! In Scotland the intake follows the calender year, not the academic year. Parents of children born between the end of November and the end of Feb (in our region) can choose to send their children to school at age either 4.5 or 5.5. But as the preschool is so good, almost everyone tries to send them to school as late as possible! My 2 have Feb birthdays (3rd and 6th) so I can keep them until 5.5, and that is what I plan to do.
Just to let you know how it can work in other places!

janh · 15/03/2003 21:11

Sounds like a great system, susan!

I do think 4+ is way too early to start school, personally, especially as most of Europe seems to wait until 6-7, so you are lucky to have that choice.

Eulalia · 16/03/2003 09:45

Do you take her to any mums and toddlers groups? How does she cope then - does she play with the other children or stay nearby? I started my son with a rising 3's group when he was 2.5 where he was left for 2 hours and despite being rarely left he was fine. Then at age 3 he progressed to 2 mornings a week at playgroup. You may find a big difference in the 6 months till she can go to pre-school. There is no hurry either way - just do what you feel happy with. A gradual process is best I think.

My son still attends a mums and toddlers one morning a week which is actually an under 5's groups and although he is one of hte older ones there it means he can be with me and still have the benefit of being at a group. You could maybe ask around for these types of groups as I know a lot of the babies and toddler groups tend to stop at age 3. good luck.

baggie · 17/03/2003 13:31

Thank you everyone for your replies, it has helped a lot. I have spoken at length with my husband (don't know the abbreviation for this!) and have decided to wait a while to make any decision. My dd enjoys the playgroups and music groups we go to together and is growing in confidence as the months go by. It is interesting to hear about all the different systems around and I think the best idea is to look around and see what suits. Thanks again.

OP posts:
Moomin · 17/03/2003 13:34

baggie - dh = dear/darling husband. No, of COURSE it's not tongue-in-cheek !

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