Exclusion - Tribunal

[Deborahf]

It's been a while since I last posted here hoping for some constructive advice on behaviour difficulties with my ds. Since then, my ds (aged 7) has been permanently excluded from his school. We have just gone through the school discipline committee meeting, where the govenors upheld the headteachers decision. We are appealing to an independent tribunal and hope to have the decision overturned. I was wondering if anyone else has experience of the system and how they coped. Has anybody actually won at independent tribunal?

Deborahf, I hope someone can give you some inside information on this. I remember you posting before about your son, but at the time exclusinon wasn't on the agenda. It was less than a year ago. Have things happened that quickly? If so, I am really shocked. I thought permanent exclusion happened at the end of a long series of actions. Poor you, if I was living through this I would be in shreds. I hope you and your family have some real life support. I cannot really think of any practical advice to give you - would it help seeing an independent educational psychologist? Professionals who are not linked up with the school might add another valuable viewpoint when you go to an independent tribinal.

I've also seen advice numbers you can phone about school exclusion problems - these are advertised in our local paper (I live in SE London).

Hope you get some help here, too!

There is a new Code of Practice issued by the dfes on exclusions, when they should and shouldn't be used and how the independent appeal should be conducted. I think the reference is 0031 or 0032 of 2003. If you have a look on the website for the dfes I am sure that you will find it. Also there is an organisation called ACE whose remit is to provide advice to parents of excluded pupils. The headteachers letter to you should have contained the contact number. I am an adviser to the panel in my area so if you wnat more info let me know. Otherwise good luck!

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Tigermouth - it was less than a year ago - October to be precise. Things have gone downhill rapidly and the system is not designed to cope with this at all. Both DH and I are very stressed, but support each other very much and of course, our DS needs loads of tender love at the moment. He's confused, upset and a bit lost. Yes, permanent exclusion is supposed to be the end of a long series of actions - that's our point anyway.

Pipsqueak - thanks for the notes - I think I've read more DfES info in the last few weeks than I ever want to again!! I thought these things were supposed to be in simple english now! Have been in touch with ACE - and they've been great. Have a good parent partner here - she's been a great support.

Still the next stage is the independent panel. Hopefully they'll see it our way. If not, I've got to face the battle of getting him into a new local school - never easy at the best of times.

Thanks again.

They very often win - we have had several overturned when we really didn't think it possible - I'm afraid I approach it from the other side of the fence ( I teach )and feel like the appeals tribunal live in Cloud Coukoo (sp???) land - but I can quite imagine how awful it must feel from your position. You do have reason to be optimistic though the panels are independant/determind to send as many kids back to school as possible - defintely NOT on the side of rubber stamping the schools'/govenors' decision.

Thanks Bayleaf - I'm pleased to hear that.

I do understand the school's position, but I feel that just throwing my DS out of school and hoping for the best is extremely unhelpful. As they didn't do everything possible to help in the first place, I'm determined to get the decision overturned.

Deborahf - realy sorry to read about your DS's situation but as Robinw has suggested - surely if this school hasn't helped your son in the first place (as you state in your last message) it won't help any more if he goes back, in fact it could make this worse as the teachers could be very 'annoyed' that the decision was over turned - I know they shouldn't be, but they probably will be.

Would it be worth looking for a new school and making a 'new start' in a totally different environment.

Sorry if this sounds over simplified, I do appreciate it must be a horrible situation for all of you.

Hi Lindy & Robin W

Thanks for your messages. It's not that I specially want my DS to go back to the school. The situation is that all the other local schools, ie within ½hour walk of home are full - and I don't believe that I should have to travel miles to get him into school. Besides at this stage - he's not ready to go back to school. He has behavioural and emotional difficulties and needs special help - but that's another story!! Our request for a statutory assessment was turned down as the school hadn't done all they could - but they'd thrown him out by this stage!! It's an on going battle.

I was just wondering if anyone had personal experience of going through the process and actually winning.

Once again, thanks all - will let you know how it goes.

Deborah- contact IPSEA immediately!! They are absolutely brilliant (you'll get them on a google search). They can help with tribunal and with getting a statutory assesment. If your son needs statementing he should not be being excluded. (I have heard- first heand- of stories where a child receives a diagnosis after a major battle- head says "don't believe it" and then promptly excludes said child so it probably won't help life at the school particularly).

Jim-jams - thanks for that I'll give that a go this evening.

Deborahf, really sorry to hear about the difficulties you are having with schooling for your ds. I used to work for an LEA and have dealt with SEN and exclusions from that side (albeit a few years ago!), but have also been involved from the parental side when acting on behalf of young people in care. I'm sure you've already had really good advice from ACE, so I'm sorry if I'm saying things that you already know!

Schools should only permanently exclude if there is a serious breach of the school's discipline policy, and if a range of alternative strategies have been tried and have failed, and if allowing the pupil to remain at school would seriously harm the education or welfare of the pupil or others in the school.

Now, if the LEA turned down your request for statutory assessment, that clearly indicates that the school had not exhausted the range of options available to them. Make sure that the Independent panel is aware of this. It would be a good idea to get further details from the LEA about what the school could have done in relation to your DS's SENs and use this in your appeal. It used to be that the LEA had to have a representative at the appeal hearing to give the LEA's view. It would be interesting to see what their position is if they are on one hand supporting the schools exclusion, but on the other hand turning down the request for assessment as the school hadn't done enough to suport DS. LEA's don't always support the school.

Make sure that the information that you want to convey to the panel is clear - obviously these situations are really emotional and it is easy to come to the end of a hearing and wish that you'd said this or that. Do you have to submit information in advance? Make a list of things that you want to make sure are said in the hearing and tick them off as you go along to make sure you say them. If you get to the end and then remember something else you want to say then ask if you can add something - the worst thing is to come away feeling that you haven't made your best case.

You said in an earlier post that if the decision is not overturned then you will face the prospect of having to get ds into another school. The LEA should help you with this. Hopefully your parent partnership officer will be clued up on this. I thought that LEA's have to make provision for excluded pupils after they have been out of school for 15 days - is that happening for your ds? Some LEA's make specific funding available to give to 'receiving' schools to help support the integration of excluded pupils - so definately get the LEA to work with you on that one!

If the outcome of the appeal is that the exclusion is overturned then it would be essential for there to be a re-integration meeting before your ds goes back to set out clearly the support strategies that are going to be put in place for him. Try and get other people involved in this meeting, eg LEA exclusions officer, EP, behaviour support service, so that it is not just between you and the school.

I'm sure that you are currently 100% taken up with the appeal process, but just a quick thought about the request for statutory assessment. When was the request turned down? If it was within the past two months then you can lodge an appeal to the SEN Tribunal. I know that the last thing you want to deal with right now is another appeals process, but the first step to appealing to the SEN Tribunal is just to complete a short form and send the copy of the letter from the LEA turning your request down. You can include further details at a later stage in the process. Given that events have now 'moved on', the LEA may decide to go ahead with the assessment rather than go to tribunal. They may also feel that the exclusion provides evidence that the your ds has SEN's that warrant assessment, even though the school has not done their job properly and done what they should have done.

Sorry this is so long - hope some of it is of use. Best wishes for the appeal hearing.

Hi Kyliebump - no need to apologise for the long message - it's been very helpful. My DH and I have got several useful tips out of it and I'll let you know how both appeals go.

Thanks for your help.

kyliebump, just wanted to say that's such a helpful and informative message. I hope it helps you deborahf.

Glad it was helpful Deborahf - the LEA side of SEN is where I have most experience, so if there's anything I can help with on the SEN appeal please shout.

I'm thinking of you - it must be an extremely difficult time.

Deborahf, i have some extra info. (I work for a LEA)
The LEA has fifteen school days in which to set the date for the appeal. In which case your son remains on roll of the excluding school, the school should provide work and mark it. It is during this time that no other ed. provision will be provided as he is on roll.

The actual appeal will be made up of 3 or 5 independent panel. the new legislation states that a head or ex head or teacher must be repesented on the panel. There will be a LEA rep at the meeting. Ensuring that the legislation has been followed interms of the exclusion process. You will be asked to submit your written evidence 5 days before the date so the panel can read it. The school cannot submit any NEW evidence but you are able to. So ensure you have any extra evidence available to submit.

Are you aware that if you win your appeal whilst you son can return to the school,the exclusion will be quashed he does not have to. However, if you chose not to return YOU are responsible for finding a new school place. What year is your son. if he is KS1 there is class size prejudice ie: max 30 AND as you said if all local schools are full it will be difficult.

If you are unsuccessful the LEA has an obligation to provide 25 hours/fulltime education provision and a new school place.
Kyliebump is right, check about support for re-tegration, most LEA's do have a budget and support team, who will adivse and support you through this process.

ACE are very good at advising and supporting, your LEA should also have an appeals helpline.

In terms of the statement was a school submission or did you request. Has your son seen an educational psychologist, was he on a pastoral support plan, an individual education plan, were their 'outside agencies' involved. Did he have fixed term exclusions? Many times submissions are turned down for lack of evidence. IPSEA will help you with this.

What did your son do to be permex?

I would also contact your LEA to ask what provision is made for primary excluded pupils as said above full time provision is a legal requirement but will not kick in till your son is 'off roll'. Most LEA's have pupil referral units in which to educate.

Sorry to be the bearer of bad news, but in my experience most appeals are not successfull. Do your research and by submitting paperwork, will help you to keep focussed and non emotive at such an emotional time. The new legislation is very clear that a school MUST explore all avenues to support a child before resorting to a permanent exclusion. That, should be your argument.

The difficulties is, that even though the school has not met your son's needs, they may have followed the exclusion process accurately.

Sorry for the long post.

I hope that helps

Hi Razer - thanks for the post. It's been very helpful. We have the date for the independent appeal and are quite hopeful that it will be successful. As for class sizes - I've already run up against them!! I have my ds on waiting lists at several local schools (ie within walking distance of our house), but it appears if we fail with the appeal we will end up having to send him to a school miles away. Yet again I think the system fails. Still I don't want to think about that until I have to. Will let you know how it goes.

How are you doing Deborahf? - I've been thinking of you and your DS.

Hi Kyliebump - the independent appeal was at 10am this morning. It was a very, very long morning. My DH and I were absolutely shattered when it finished and we won't know the outcome until tomorrow at the earliest - otherwise Saturday. We are hopeful that the appeal went our way, but will let you know when we know. Thanks for the thoughts.

Regards Deborah x

Deborahf - I have my fingers crossed for you and am hoping it goes your way.

hope the outcome is good - any news yet?

Hi All - had a good meeting on Thursday and are quietly optimistic about the outcome. However, the letter should come tomorrow and put us out of our misery. WIll let you know then.

We got the letter this morning. Ben has been reinstated to school with immediate effect. The independent appeal panel agreed with us and the LEA that the school has not exhausted all avenues of support, and that the exclusion at that time was not warranted. We have to have reintegration meetings soon to work out the best way for our DS to get back to school. He is delighted. The school have to understand that DS has been diagnosed with ADHD and there will have to be adjustments all round, but the drug treatment is already having a positive effect on his behaviour at home, so it should be easier for the school too.

Thanks to everyone here for the support.

Brilliant news Deborahf

Brilliant news Deborahf

I am so pleased for you and especially pleased that your ds is looking forward to going back to this school. That's what counts the most in the end. I hope the reintegration goes smoothly.
Good luck!