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Original poster

Lost PPA - Fuming!!!!

37 replies

rachels103 · 25/11/2008 20:50

I'm hoping for some support here, as I'm seething with anger at something my head said today.
I'm on a course for 2 days next week connected to a project which I have asked to be involved in, but which is additional to my teaching and leadership responsibilities.
One of the days of the course includes my PPA afternoon, but I have been told in no uncertain terms that I've 'lost' that PPA time and can't take it at another time.

Grrrrrrr! I have a class of 33 year 5 and 6 who have had 2 years of v. unsettled teaching for various reasons, and they are challenging to say the least. (14 IEPs at the last count) I am working very hard to get them on track and I'm generally not a moaner, but this has really got to me.

I am right in thinking that it is illegal not to provide 10% PPA aren't I? I give so much extra to my job, and hate to rock the boat, especially as it is a small school so there's no way of avoiding people, but feel like saying that I won't go on the course and lead the project unless I get my entitled time back. And whilst we're at it maybe I won't run the drama club any more or spend my evenings at school events or do any of the other thousand and one things that we all do on top of our contractual duties.

Sorry to rant. Needed to get that off my chest. Should I forget about it or go back and say actually this isn't on?

OP posts:
RupertTheBear · 25/11/2008 20:54

I am not sure of the legal side (it's probably best to check one of the teaching unions websites) but it would be exactly the same in our school - if you were on a course on your PPA day your PPA time would be lost.
It's not fair - and I think you would be righ to argue it - but see if you can find something in writing to back you up. Which union are you in?

Original poster
rachels103 · 25/11/2008 21:01

I've already looked and it is illegal, but I don't want to throw that at her....not my style.

I just feel like refusing to do the project because why should I do something which is only going to make more work for me anyway, when I lose my time in return? Not much in the way of give and take there methinks.

OP posts:
MyDingaling · 25/11/2008 21:05

In my school, we are able to rearrange PPA time if we are on a course

leoemma · 25/11/2008 21:08

If we are on a course and it should be PPA we lose our PPA.

twinsetandpearls · 25/11/2008 21:09

I have never worked in a school where you can rearrange PPA time. Infact we are encouraged to book courses etc on days when we have frees/ PPA time. Does a course not count as PPA?

Original poster
rachels103 · 25/11/2008 21:19

No, because it is not planning, preparation or assessment. All of the above will now have to be done in my own time. I have already lost one PPA time for a training day. No one else lost their's that week as they all have PPA on different days. I am drowning in paperwork, the course will create more paperwork and I'm wondering why I volunteered to do it in the first place.

OP posts:
squeakypop · 25/11/2008 21:26

We don't have fixed PPA time in our school - just 'free' lessons which can be taken for cover at anytime (nothing guaranteed).

If we have a choice of course dates, we usually pick a time when we are light on lessons so as not to inconvenience colleagues with cover or to short-change the children on their education. And it is a hassle to prepare coverwork.

I don't understand the issue, tbh.

TheFallenMadonna · 25/11/2008 21:28

I wouldn't get it back either. In secondary there's no cover as such, they're just lessons when you aren't timetabled for classes. No way would you get cover if you lost one due to a course. If you get a course it's considered pretty jammy...

twinsetandpearls · 25/11/2008 21:32

I do know the feeling, I am also drowning in paperwork and marking. I do see it as part of PPA tbh even if not directly.

Original poster
rachels103 · 25/11/2008 21:36

Well that's put me in my place. Will stop whingeing now and go to bed.
BTW squeakypop, you should have guaranteed PPA time. I don't actually see running myself into the ground as being an alternative to 'shortchanging the children's education'. Clearly you are far morally superior to me and get off on trying to make me feel worse after a crap day. Cheers then.
And yes, before you jump back down my throat I know I asked for an opinion but there's no need to be quite so smug in your response, and try to imply that I want to jeopardise the education of the children in my class.

OP posts:
Original poster
rachels103 · 25/11/2008 21:39

That previous response was not directed at you twinset. Just feeling a touch disillusioned and probably shouldn't have posted on here in present mood.

OP posts:
squeakypop · 25/11/2008 21:40

Huh?

pointydog · 25/11/2008 21:46

rachel, my sympathies. You sound very stressed and very much in need of all the quiet thinking and preparing time you can possibly get.

Arrive at the course late (ie after the milling about coffee-time), get away sharp andn you might still fit in an hour or so of 'extra' time.

twinsetandpearls · 25/11/2008 21:48

I agree you should have guaranteed PPA time and of course we should not run ourselves into the ground but sometimes the job makes you do that. I have taken over new classes including some which sound like yours and the demands can seem relentless. Good job the holidays are only a few weeks away.

cascade · 25/11/2008 21:48

rachels103 I see where your coming from. im secondary and all the schools ive worked in the minimum non contact is 4 1hour non contacts, and only 1 per week or 38 hours can be used per year for cover. Primary school teachers get very little non contact and I can understand why youd be pissed off if you have lost it. In all the schools i have worked in all secondary teachers moan like hell if they have too much cover. (me included)

ravenAK · 25/11/2008 21:49

Don't know about the OP's query, but squeakypop, you are legally entitled to designated PPA time.

Eg. I'm a secondary teacher, no TLR, so I teach 26 periods out of 30. I then have 1 'free' which can be taken for cover & 3 PPAs which can't. It's clearly shown on my timetable which is which. If I were a HOD, I might have say 3 PPAs, & 3 'frees' any or all of which could be taken for cover.)

PPA has to be 10% timetable, must be differentiated as such on your timetable & cannot be directed - YOU decide what you use it for.

TheFallenMadonna · 25/11/2008 21:50

I have 3 hours non-contact, 5 hours per fortnight PPA. So 10%. You're fortunate cascade.

TheFallenMadonna · 25/11/2008 21:51

Squeakypop teaches in an independent school BTW. They're a law unto themselves

That's three hours non contact per week in my previous post BTW.

twinsetandpearls · 25/11/2008 21:52

How are you getting there? Is it viable to go on the train and do marking then?

cascade · 25/11/2008 21:53

no not really ive worked all over the country and that seems to be standard in secondary.

janeite · 25/11/2008 21:55

Rachel - you're clearly cross and stressed but I don't think that Squeakypop was being at all smug or morally superior and I understand why she's now looking bewildered.

I know it's different in primary schools but in secondary, we will often make sure that courses or meetings are during our "free" time and we wouldn't "get it back" at another time once it was gone. My PPA time is a Friday afternoon and I nearly always lose it chasing up Yr 10 pupils who have gone into hiding and don't want to go to Maths. I just catch up on my prep and marking at home instead - it goes with the job I'm afraid.

If you're interested in the course and think it willenhance your enjoyment of your work then you should grin and cope; if not, then cancel the course.

You're right though - at times it feels as though our whole lives revolve around "extra work" for school and at this time of year, when everybody is shattered and we never seem to see sunlight, it can all feel far too much beyond the call of duty.

janeite · 25/11/2008 21:57

3 PPA slots Raven? We only get one hour a week in our secondary school, where we can't be touched for cover. If there's a 10% rule, I must admit, I've never noticed it! Flicks longingly through terms and conditions of service!

cascade · 25/11/2008 22:01

and remember jeneite you can only be used for 38 hours of cover, so keep a diary of cover. schools are very good at going over that directive (saves money)

squeakypop · 25/11/2008 22:01

I am in the independent sector, so not part of the working time directive, or whatever it is called.

We do as much cover as is needed (no supply teachers in our school - we cover everything in house), including exam invigilation.

We have a cover timetable, where you are first on, second on, and third on. If you are first on, there is a good chance you will be called.

I do happen to think that leaving cover work is not great for the pupils (I know this because I did two years as a supply teacher). It is much better if they get a proper lesson, but I would not foist this on my colleagues, unless it was one of my dept colleagues who was happy to teach my class (my boss actually likes to do this, if she is free).

If things get really tough, I have ways of cutting corners. I may not feel great about it, but something has to give sometimes.

ladymariner · 25/11/2008 22:03

PMSL here tbh. I'm a Level 3 TA, and get used all the time to cover for PPA in our primary school. There are two of us in school that are Level 3, last week alone we've both covered 7 different classes as we've got a coupel of teachers off at the moment.
Just wondering how legal all this is???