moving out of year group

[leosdad]

what are independent schools like if a child is moved into the year below, a friend has done this with her DS as he is a summer born and she didn't want him to be youngest in class and possibly bullied.

He is quite young at the moment and at prep school. Friend says that he would be trying for scholarship to next school. I thought you had to do entry exams at the right age (with my DD's friends they needed to know exact age in years and months)

In my experience, some schools are ok with it but many are not. I have found that the more academic schools can be difficult, especially if they are very popular and oversubscribed. The more relaxed school have been more open to it.
My DC1 is out of year, in year below and it has proved to be rather stressful, as we have been applying for secondary schools and it is just another added worry.

If he is scholarship material, why is he in the year below his age? Most independent schools accept that some august birthday kids have had to move down a year because they were struggling, but these would not be the scholarship boys.

"possibly bullied?"
Why did she assume that his age would mean he was bullied? What is her definition of bullying? ANd she was prepared to buck an established trend on the hypothetical basis that he "might" be bullied?

I am definitely considering this for my DS1 (9) as he is an August birthday and has had quite a lot of stress in his primary years due to his brothers severe special needs - am considering taking him out of starte primary where he is in year 5 and erpeating year 5 in independent school next year and then continuing thru independent school to sixth form (when hopefully he may be able to get into a grammar)

My son has never been bullied for being youngest..has never been a problem socially just academically and lower levels of maturity 9altho in many ways far more mature than his peers due to his familial circumstances)

I'm with lazymum - a child should n't be considered for a scholarship if he is out of the age group, they are normally pretty specific about relevant birthdates. It would be for 11+ or 13+ but he'd technically already be older and not all secondaries would even accept him a year "late" at all without a very good reason(statement of SEN for example). Anyway the results are often weighted by age so being the oldest may be a disavantage. If he is doing that well he could cope with his peer group anyway , just perhaps not excel as she might prefer. She needs to be careful not to pass on her preconceptions about beign the youngest or it could be a self fulfilling prophecy.

Though I do know someone with a late August birthday who was admitted out of year group to a prep school because he had come from another school system abroad, and as the oldest in his new year got a scholarship to Winchester at 13. So I guess it is possible.

As long as the scholarship exams are age corrected then I don't see why a school shouldn't offer one to a child that is in the wrong year. If the exams aren't age corrected then it would be unfair.

It's an unlikely scenario though - while I've heard of children who are too young for their year getting scholarships I've not heard of it happening for children who are too old - presumably because a child bright enough to get one is unlikely to have been held back a year.

Singersgirl,

Interesting - I think I heard about the same child while asking around about an academic prep in our area. The boy I heard about was also offered an 'out of year' place at the highly academic school the prep feeds into. Although they claim not to offer out of year places.

Btw, most scholarships seem to be for the glory rather than any financial gain, although it can lead to a bursary in cases of need.

Amey

I think if you are near the edge of a year group, then it is not going to cause hardship to move up or down a year group.

I don't think I would do it just because, but if a child has missed out on some part of their education and are consequently struggling or have low self-esteem, then moving down a year group can be just what they need. This would be for pupils who were perhaps horribly bullied in their old school, had been ill for a long time, or the victim of location transfers.

I would have a problem with going for scholarship out of the year group. It's not really fair on the other pupils because an older pupil is going to do better on the same kind of intelligence tests.

Snorkle,

Common entrance level 'scholarship' exams are just harder / more stretching than the standard common entrance exams.

A child could be held back a year, at say age 5, because they are a late developer and young for their year. But, by age 11, could have matured and be ready to be working at 'scholarship' level.

However, I wouldn't advise holding back a summer born child just to take advantage of the chance of a scholarship. It should be because its in the best interests of the child at that time.

Could have done Amey, but is much less likely to have done so I should think as late developers are unlikely to catch up that much (a very bright child that is a late developer is unlikely to be far enough behind their peers to stay down a year). I'm not saying it never happens though and of course there may have been other reasons to skip the year.

Not all schools use common entrance tests - most where I live have a single set of tests for both entrance and scholarships. These are often, at least in part, based around reasoning/IQ tests and these can be 'age corrected' to take account of the different ages of the children sitting them. It seems to me that that this system allows older children (and younger ones too) to compete fairly for scholarships.

It does sound like the same boy, Amey. I know of him rather than know him personally, but it was interesting to me as he has 31st August birthday like DS2.

It's funny, DH always thinks his 31st August birthday was an advantage as it led him to be the youngest to achieve certain things. Unfortunately for DS1 (1st August) his birthday has been a real disadvantage, only really sorted out in the last year due to the fact that when we moved to Australia he went down a year to be in his correct age group. For the first time in his school career he is average rather than struggling!

My DH was the reverse as a 1st Sep baby and moved up to the year above. It did him no harm and he preferred it (he was very sporty and got to play in both years' teams for all the sports!).

I would say that if he was bright, then keep him in the correct year. If he struggles, move him down.

Well, it must be different in the private system. It is highly unusual in the state system, as it causes all sorts of problems at secondary transfer stage. And it wouldn't be up to the parent either, slthough they would be involved, obviously. There are plenty of children struggling in a given yeargroup (regardless of birthdate) as well as those who are doing extremly well. Once you start fiddling around shifting kids up and down, you're heading for organisational chaos. A good teacher will cater well for all the kids in the class, regardless of age or ability.
But to move just on the off-chance he might be bullied seems odd to me. I guess there must be more to it than that. In my experience, kids are bullied for many reasons, but d.o.b. alone is unlikely to be one of them.

Agree with Clam that to move on the off-chance he might be bullied seems odd - especially when you consider that being in the wrong year could end up being a cause for being bullied too.

Must be quite difficult for selective schools to decide who to admit when there are different age groups involved.

Maybe bullying was an easy reason to tell people and in these times you can only admit to deciding on independent schools on scholarships

Have not seen this friend for a few years until just now and just hope it works well for the little boy

Singergirl,

I heard of this boy through a friend who's son was in his year at prep. So in rl we have a 'mutual, mutual' friend. Its a small world .

Clam,

That's why we moved to the private sector - to widen our choice and get our ds an education that suited him rather than fitting him in to an inflexible system which wasn't working for him. Lucky for my ds this option was open to us. And, it's not just private schools which allow children to move down a year - the Welsh and Scots state schools seem to offer it too!

It's about a lot more than IQ levels or academic struggling. Some kids are just immature and not ready to learn at the early age we expect our children too! This can be very hard on summer borns who can quickly decide school is not for them.

In an ideal world the teachers should be on the look out for this, and have ways of dealing with it. But in reality I think many don't.

A scholarship is not a bursary and alot of the public school scholarships give very little financial advantage it is supposed to be an honour to be awarded one. Bursaries, i think, are means tested and in some schools the child only has to pass the exam, not the scholarship paper.

I don't know how old this boy is. But I feel that if he needs to be kept down a year he is unlikely to be scholarship material. A highly intelligent, august birthday, late developer is still going to be able to cope with the work in his year group.

You can admit to deciding on independent school for any reason you want.

Lazy....sons

Totally agree with your first point that scholarships tend to be honoury (it was a point I tried to make earlier, but didn't do a good job).

My ds was 'kept down' in year 2, as he is young for his age and mildly dyspraxic. He is now in the top sets of his selective prep. It suits him being the oldest in the year (though not the most mature). It wouldn't suit all summer borns and we have limited his secondary choice, but it was the best decision for him.

I imagine the ds in the op is in a similar position to my ds. Possibly bright enough to try for a scholarship, and if the schools want him they'll offer him one. (Normally worth £100 a term).