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Original poster

Fellow teachers- what would you think?

40 replies

smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:10

I have had a job share teaching job for the past 12 years.

Next March I have offered to go with our year 6s on their field trip as one of my deaf pupils will be going and needs the support. This will involve me working 2 and a half days that I do not usually work for which my HT will pay me supply rates.

I went to see him yesterday to ask him if I can have a day off instead of being paid for one of these days as my sis has asked me to go away for the weekend and will involve coming back on a day when I usually work.

We have a very able HLTA who covers us when we are on courses or away and this is cheaper than paying for me for a day's supply anyway and I would plan all the work for her to do.(This is with a group of three deaf children)

He said no as the other teachers would complain as they are would not be allowed to take time off in term time to go on holidays (???!!!)

I could swap a day with my job share but would rather do it this way as I am already having to go to some considerable lengths to organise care for my dds while I am away. I feel like telling him to stuff his field trip but the child in question has autistic tendencies and needs someone she knows really well to go with her- noone else has offered to do it.

ALso I know for a fact that other members of staff have been given days off to go to weddings or if they are moving house.

So what would you feel if a part time teacher in your school wanted to do this?

AIBU in thinking this is rather unfair?

OP posts:
Littlefish · 04/11/2008 22:15

I'm pretty sure that my headteacher would be ok with me swapping days with my jobshare partner, but not taking an additional day elsewhere. I don't think he's being unreasonable, sorry!

I also think that going to a wedding/moving house is different from an long weekend away.

I don't think that's what you want to hear, sorry.

Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:17

I am not taking an additional day. I am asking for a day off in leiu of an extra one I am working (when I do not usually work)as a favour to him.

OP posts:
kid · 04/11/2008 22:19

It sounds like the Head is trying to be fair from others point of view, but the fact is you are doing them a favour so the favour should be returned.
You are not asking for a day off as such because you are owed 2 1/2 days.

If it were me, I'd have to let the Head know if I can't have day off back, then I would have to pull out of the trip so I could take the 'holiday' you are being denied on that day instead. Even if it weren't true, I would still say that anyway.

Littlefish · 04/11/2008 22:20

I realise that, but he's paying you for those additional days.

goldilocksandmylittlebear · 04/11/2008 22:23

This happens all the time in my school! We often have a day off instead. It makes little difference to the children as its your job share covering!

twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:23

He is paying you for those days and I admire a headteacher who does the right thing and not the cheapest thing.

AbbeyA · 04/11/2008 22:24

YANBU -it seems to me to be a straightforward swap.

Donk · 04/11/2008 22:24

Days off form weddings of close family, and moving house are covered by red book conditions - i.e. the Head has to let the teachers have the day off (although I recall one head who tried to stop a member of staff having the day off for her own wedding.....
the union soon pointed out that he had no option!)
Having a day off for holiday is not covered in the same way - although heads can allow (I believe) unpaid leave at their discretion... but it is not usual to do this for holidays.

wonderstuff · 04/11/2008 22:25

YANBU but i dont know what you can do about it

Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:26

No the way I wanted to do it doesn't involve my job share. The extra days I am working for the field trip do not involve her. (SHe is still working her normal days that week with the children who are left as it's a mixed age group)

OP posts:
pointydog · 04/11/2008 22:26

Trouble is, schools operate on paying for extra days worked, they never run a TOIL system. TOIL would be completely unmanageable and although it does seem unfair on teh face of it, I can see that this is seomthing a school would firmly want to avoid.

Going on trips is a bugger. A huge amount of extra work, and staff usually feel pressured into going.

However, there are two completely separate issues here - the trip and having a long weekend holiday.

I think you need to sort it with your job share partner.

Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:28

Twin set- of course he is paying me but I want to do it in a different way.

OP posts:
twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:31

But a school si there to serve the needs of the pupils not the wants of the pupils. The head could give you the day but it would be discretionary, I am certain if I were in your position my school would not give it me. As Donk said this is not covered by our contract.

Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:31

My job share partner has said she will be able to swap that week so I will still be able to go but it means me organising yet more changes to my child care arrangements which I had hoped to avoid.

Thanks for your opinions.

OP posts:
Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:34

No it's not in my contract to be jointly responsible for a bunch of children for 24 hours a day for a period of 5 days either- I just think a little bit of give and take would be reasonable. Wish I hadn't told him why I wanted the day off now!

OP posts:
pointydog · 04/11/2008 22:34

I understand, it is a real pain to sort out different childcare. You'll probably get little thanks for it, but good for you for going on the trip.

goldilocksandmylittlebear · 04/11/2008 22:36

I get the feeling that in any other job this would never be an issue!

pointydog · 04/11/2008 22:37

it probably wouldn't be an issue but there is a very good reason why it is an issue in teaching.

twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:37

What I neant by not covered by your contract is that there are grounds on which we can be given leave but this is not one of them.

I know it can be frustrating but there are so many fantastic things about teaching it is worth putting up with the inflexibility and we do have those long holidays to see family.

twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:38

But goldilocks in no other job do you get all those holidays - there has to be a payback somewhere. Schools have to be strict over directed time.

kid · 04/11/2008 22:39

The main thing is that you still get to go. The child won't miss out on the trip and you still get to go away for the weekend, even if it means extra planning for childcare.

It should all be about give and take though.

twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:42

Yes for all I have said I am glad you can go, I have been given discretionary leave in the past but I have never expected it or felt affronted if I did not get it.

Hope you and the kids enjoy the trip.

goldilocksandmylittlebear · 04/11/2008 22:44

Here we go again...... I'm off before I'm made to feel a crap teacher because I value worklife balance.

Original poster
smartiejake · 04/11/2008 22:45

I know I know twinset- it is a brilliant job I love it to bits and the holidays are fab. I actually love going on the field trip (have been 5 times before)

The children get so much out of it, particularly our deaf kids who are not always in mainstream lessons so much due to their special needs.

The mum of the child I am supporting this year is very relieved and grateful I am going.

Just think it's not fair!!!

OP posts:
twinsetandpearls · 04/11/2008 22:46

I am not saying worklife balance is not important, I have just left a teaching post as I could not achieve work life balance there.

But it would be churlish to deny that we have those holidays and therefore directed time is exactly that unless it is for the reasons stated in our contract