Out-of-school sports clubs - Is there always a clique like this?

[Cornflakemum]

Took DS2 (6) to a sports fixture with his team this morning.
It was meant to be a 'friendly' with another team - so training together, and meant to be fairly low key mini-matches for the second hour.

I was shocked by how much favouritism and competitiveness there seemed to be even at this age

Basically the coaches seemed to keep playing the same boys (who admittedly were the good (i.e. older!) ones, and in fact DS2 was 'subbed' and left on the sidelines for the whole of the last two games.

It's the kids whose Dads are the loud (rude?) and mouthy ones who seem to get all the attention.

I was when I began to think about it later, and wondered if I should drop an e-mail to the coaches about it?

Surely they can't write off a 6-year old so young? He'll never even have a chance to learn to play if he spends all the time on the sidelines...

Surely at this age it should all be about encouraging ALL children to the best of their abilities?

Or am I just being naive, and is this what happens?

Totally agree with you that at age 6 any team activity should encourage EVERY child to the best of their ability.

However if you are talking about football brace yourself - competitive dads shouting instructions from the sidelines only get worse. I am amazed every week how seriously some parents take supposedly non-competitive football matches.

I would expect good coaches to encourage the whole of the team though, and make a point of praising all team members for their particular skill.

lol i was listening to a thing on the radio with annabel croft about children's tennis.

I think it depends on the team (I assume you are talking football?).

My DS aged 13 plays for a local boys' football team that we deliberately chose as their philosophy is 'Everyone gets a game, even if they have two left feet' (my DS is actually quite good but does not have the competitive element required). I know of other teams who only play their best players, but not normally at 6 years old I don't think.

I would ask the coaches about their team selection procedures because I totally agree that it should be all about encouraging children to play to the best of their abilities. The serious stuff can come later if necessary.

As TTT said, brace yourself, I have also witnessed some shocking behaviour from parents on the sidelines.

It's rugby - not football, which is one of the reasons I was surprised - a bit less 'yobbish' normally... but lots of uber-competitive middle class parents I suspect.

Class or perceived class, doesn't come in to it Cornflake. There's two parenting camps when it comes to most sports - the Chilled-Outs and The Competitive Twats!

Stick with the Chilled-Outs and you'll enjoy hot coffee and home-made cakes on the sidelines. Join the other lot and you and your child are dooooomed!

ds1 has after 6 years of playing for the same team, and over the last 1-2 years being increasingly left on the sidelines, playing 5 mins of a game etc gone to another team at my insistence (he's a very young - in some ways - 10 & couldnt understand why an adult wouldn't be 'fair' to him...he wanted to stay & expected things would change - which being the cynic i am i knew they wouldnt ) anyway, hes now been with new team since start of season & loves it. he plays every week, has been man of the match twice, & their coaches are lovely - they never raise their voices, don't criticise, & all the kids love them & enjoy playing. which is what it should be about, whether they are 6 or 16.

sadly some coaches adopt a policy of either
a) win at all costs
b) play their own kids at the expense of other peoples
c) play their own & their mates kids at others expense

or a combination of all 3!

from experience, i would say, keep an eye on it, but if it continues you might want to think about a different team for next season. otherwise its a lot of time spent sitting on the sidelines for not a lot, esxpecially when you pay the same subs etc as those who play constantly

Doesn't sound like any rugby club that I know!
What do you mean about 'older' ones - were they mixing different age groups? I'm trying to remember back to that age - do they play different codes between U7 and U8. Was your DS not being picked because they were playing U8 rules?

Find another club, at that age it should be "everyone gets a go" and most rugby clubs are very keen to encourage the little ones. DS1 played rugby from around 7 and had a great time, it did get more competitive as he got older though and he got played less and less. We're now in Oz and he's on the B team at his local club (U16s) which is fantastic - much better to actually get to play on the B team than spend your time as a sub on the A team!

Glitterball, your DS's new team sounds exactly like ours; eg, the coaches half-time team talk usually consists of "go out and enjoy yourselves lads". There is no favouritism or raised voices or criticism and all the parents are lovely (no competitive twat variety!). Oh and the team quite often win their matches due to playing in a lower league amongst similar ability teams.

Not sure how it works with Rugby though.

Ask around about which clubs in your area other parents would recommend. I've found that everything depends on the coach's attitude. Some will try to instill a love for the game, and then let every child play. Others want to be the best team, and only the good play.

But there are clubs out there that play games for fun, and the love of the game, (whichever game it happens to be, also seems to be true of things like dance classes), and is worth seeking out.

Don't know about Rugby but ds1 plays in a town league football team. The philosophy is that every child has a go, only positive, encouragment for all or you'll be kicked out of the team.
I totally agree with this for small dc's, the problem we're seeing now though is that they are playing competitive teams who have a first team, and those dc's play regularly in certain positions. When we play, there's a million substitutions so everyone has a go, meaning we lose every match, usually 10-0!
DS1 is quite good and is getting a bit fed up at losing every single match and I know the coach sometimes gets a despondant. So I really don't know what the answer is...you want the club to be inclusive, but maybe there is just no point in playing leagues.

My DH helps to coach at an U7/U8 rugby level. He always makes sure that everybody plays, though he has seen teams where this is not the case.
The only time I know where somebody has had to sit off is in the case of bad behaviour, and that was more of a 'time out' on the sideline for 5 mins. FWIW the dad of this child was entirely supportive of this.
I like the rugby that DS plays in that they all train together with the opposing team to start, and them play mini matche afterwards so there really is a chance for eveybody to have a go.

sorry if this is a hijack...
but what do we think is the right age for games to become competitive?

Ooooh don't start me on that ingles!!
We are in the opposite scenario to cornflakemum. DS is desparate to play competitively but the coaches are still doing the 'inclusive' bit. It frustrates him horribly when we put out a hotchpotch team and lose. He is not the only one: it has got to the stage where we are losing boys to other, better clubs because of it.

PS to cornflake, if you do think of changing clubs: all of this depends so much on individual coaches (who are volunteers so I hate to criticise them too much). Don't go on a RFC's general reputation; find out precisely what it's like for your age group.

Thanks for these responses.
When I said the 'older' boys I just meant the older children in the year group.
DS is an August born child so is almost a year younger than the oldest, which makes a huge difference at this age.

I CAN see both sides of the argument, but I think 6-7 yrs is too young to start only playing the 'best' boys.

It also doesn't help that some of the children already play rugby at their (private prep) school, so come with lots of skills even at age 6. It's then really difficult for the others to 'catch up' - especially if they never get a chance!

I think there's also the risk of categorising the kids as 'good'/'bad' too soon. My eldest son also plays, and at 6-8yrs was frankly terrible, as he was tall/ unco-ordinated and not very fast and nimble.

Now he's 9 and he's really come into his own, and his size gives him enormous strengths.

I personally wouldn't have a problem with them streaming the children, and in fact our club does start this from age 8. What I do dislike is encouraging the children to attend fixtures and then leave them on the sidelines for long periods.

I felt so for DS2 - he said 'I didn't get to play because I'm not vey good' - he's way too young to be thinking like this!

I totally agree Cornflake. 6 is too young for this.
Funnily enough DS1 is also 9 , has grown into his body (he too is tall and strong) and is now ready for the competition. He plays for the U10's. Maybe this is the right age. He's going to get fed up I think if he's always on the losing side, because despite my constant assurance that taking part is the most important thing etc. he is competitive and wants to win.

Being one of the oldest children in the year doesn't guarantee you'll be in the team or one of the best! My ds is a November birthday (year one) but is quite small and this is his first year playing football so he's not very good. He'd be a lot more at home with the Reception-age boys - most of whom are also bigger than he is, mind you. It's bad luck being small AND one of the oldest. However, at this stage it's not competitive and they have a series of teams so all the boys get to play, even the ones who are rubbish but it also addresses the consistency issue - you have the same players in each team each week. Those games start after Xmas.

He's also in a mixed year one/two class so is definitely the smallest boy in his class as well (there is one girl who is as small).

I agree that 6 is too early to be so competitive - all children need encouragement and one of the reasons for the obesity crisis is the fact that we don't properly encourage sport in this country. Anyone can improve, even if they don't get really good, and anyone can find a sport they are ok at, even if they are utter rubbish at everything else.