7+ entrance exams - how hard are they for state pupils?

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I've followed various threads on here about the state/private dilemma at reception and they all seem to come back to one theme - will my dc be able to cope with the entrance exams if we decide to take him out of a state school for a private prep.

I have the same worry. There is a lovely primary school down the road from us. It used to be very rough and when we moved here two years ago I discounted it, but the head has turned it round. I've been to visit a couple of times and really like the atmosphere, much more so than the private schools that start at 4 in the area, which I find uninspiring and stuffy.

BUT there are some outstanding preps near us which start at seven. Ideally, I'd send my dd to the primary and then transfer her to one of them. The primary head says she's no problem with me doing that. My worry is though that she won't get in, as the private kids will have been crammed for day one for the exams. I rang one of the schools and asked if being at a state school would disadvantage dd and they said "well, we do take a few state children, but we do have a certain academic standard to maintain" which left me a bit , as we're talking seven-year-olds here, not bloody Harvard business school.

So what to do? I'd really hate to miss out on the primary, which would give my dd local friends apart from anythingelse. But am I going to spend the next three years worrying about 7+ like the kind of neurotic pushy mummy I profess to despise? If others can reassure me their dcs passed 7+ from state primaries I'd be very grateful. Thank you.

The best thing to do is talk to the schools in question and ask them for a sample assessment paper.

It varies. The majority of Year 3 intake at ours is from state schools at 7+(We have an infant/junior system so they often have to move at Year 3 anyway) but they no longer have to sit a test as such. Basically they are expected to be average or better in reading , writing and maths(presumably they would look at SAT predictions)and how they behave and work during a visit.

If those in your area do operate a competitive 7+ entry test get hold of Bonds Assessment papers to practice maths and comprehension/reasoning, mainly for familiarity with the format, and have a dummy run of writing a story to time. It may also be worth asking the Admissions Secretaries which state schools they most often take pupils from (or it may be in the school magazine), as they may have a better relationship with some than others and therefore trust their level of teaching and recommendation more.

A subject close to my heart! DS1 is sitting 7+ exams this December/January. The school he is sitting for is very academic so we've had him coached since February. The school takes 45 a year but only around 3 or 4 come from state schools.

DS1 is bright and very literate but is less strong on maths. I took him to a tutor for an independent assessment at about 5 to see if we were thinking along the right lines and she agreed that it was good to push him towards an academic school.

I've also been up front with his current school about our plans and they have been supportive (his year 1 teacher had two sons at the school in question). I would say, however, that it is quite stressful going through this process and the tutor has been steadily increasing the pressure on him (and me). If I could I would have loved to have sent him to a pre-prep who could have done the work for me - but finances and the costs of doing the same for DD and DS2 ruled against it...

If you definitely want an academic prep @ 7, unless you want to spend a fortune on tutoring, better to send her to the pre-prep.

If you are thinking of moving at 7 I'd start off private. I have just taken the very difficult decision not to sit my yr 1 child for the 7+ tests simply because I think that to tutor, and you have to, from 6 along with all the primary school homework is just too much pressure on a little one. It's different if they're already in an academic school as they're used to that kind of work and all their friends are doing the same thing. However, if they're in a state school they'll be doing a lot more than their peers and it will really eat into their spare time. Mine simply couldn't do his 2 extra activities along with tutoring.

I'm happy to tutor at 11 because I think that they have a much better understanding of what you're trying to help them achieve and can buy into it so to speak. I simply can't put my little one under that kind of pressure at the moment and I think that if I did tutor he'd stand an extremely good chance of getting into the very good schools.

Do you really want a school that writes off children at the age of 7 based on their academic ability in an exam?????

One of our local private schools now "expells" children who do not do well enough at the 7+ exams. I know several parents have withdrawn their children because of the message it sends out.

Personally if I could afford private education for my dc I would be looking at a school that nurtures lots of things that are important in life not just academic results/ability. Confidence etc are so much more important in long term happiness tbh

It may depend on where you are, and what sort of school you're looking for. We're in Surrey with 3 DCs. DD1 and DD2 have recently transferred from their (good) state primary, into an independent senior girls school, and are doing very well. It's not academically selective, but that was our choice, both did pass the entrance exams and were offered places at an academically selective school, as well another non-selective school, but we just liked this one the best, and it scores highly in value-add.

DS is only 2, but we went to an open day at our local boys' prep school, which takes them from 7+, and asked what their view was about DS going to the village infant school and whether that would impact his chances of getting in, and were told not at all.

I agree with CarGirl's sentiments totally, being at school is not just about academic results (though they are important), it's about producing a rounded happy individual at the end of it.

Just to put it in context, the academic preps here are looking for the kids (in state) who are very likely to get level 3s in the Y2 SATs.
So yes, they expect them to be bright but L3 is nothing like out of reach for a bright kid at a good state primary. They also all state in their blurb that they are aware that children from state schools will be working inside NC guildlines for their year group which I take to mean they make allowances/adjust accordingly.

I thought, personally, that 7 would be the worse time to test DS which is why I opted for pre-prep. At 11 they understand,at 7 I think they just feel stressed by it all.

Does the lovely primary turn rubbish at 7, then? Why not put her in with a view to keeping her there unless something goes wrong?

I know several seemingly very bright children who got all 3s at local state primaries in Y2 and didn't get into academically selective schools at 7. I think you need to do quite a lot of home preparation with your child, unless they are naturally very academic and willing to cooperate and show it. They need to be familiar with column addition/subtraction, short multiplication, all their times tables, verbal reasoning, parts of speech, how to write a creative story in 20 minutes, and many other things they don't cover in state school.

I agree that 6/7 is a very difficult time to test a child. DS1 would never have got in from state primary, DS2 might have, but probably wouldn't have finised the exams.

That's interesting you say that, SG. It must vary enormously from school to school.

I live reasonably close to one of the most academically selective, highest achieving girls' school in the country (ranked 2nd) and I know that when they look at applications from state educated chldren they acknowledge that those girls have been working within the constraints of the state school system and do not expect them to have covered Y3/4 work. They base offers to those girls on potential and how they interact/perform at the interview part of the assessment. I think it's very different at 11.

My son got in at 4+ and I'm sure he would have passed at 11+ or 13+ but I'm certain he would have struggled to show his true potential at 7 (he's 6 now) DD1 would have had much more chance.

To be fair, the schools I have experience of (via friends) are the most sought-after prep schools in SW London, so they might not be representative.

When my friend, with children at a pre-prep, was at one of the prep school open days, someone apparently specifically asked if they made allowances for state school entrants at 7; this school said they didn't, that the bulk of their intake at 7 was from the private sector and that more state school children got in at 11.

DS1 is doing 11+ entrance for private schools next term and he's got far more chance now (though all my digits are crossed as I type this).

A couple of months ago I read a sample entrance paper and guidelines (admittedly for Colet Court) and there is no way DS (Yr 2) and allegedly bright would be able to even cope with it, let alone pass with flying colours. As singersgirl says, this is not exactly representative but I was still shocked.
If you want to get your child into private school best to move them before they have to sit the entrance exam imo. That is what friends of mine have done. Otherwise wait for 11+ and get tutoring them 3 years early

Good luck to your DS btw singersgirl. Is he the one from our old dreamer's thread? I miss that.

Yes, he is,and thank you! Perhaps we should reinstate the thread. He is much less dreamy now, and at 10 much more able to control himself, but he still goes into hyper-silly-jibbering-overdrive.

How is your DS doing?

Very well academically and socially but still drifts off into dream mode at home sometimes, never at school. We should revive it. I will have a search. It has always been encouraging for me that they 'improve with age'

castlesintheair, how did you manage to get hold of a Colet paper?

My friend had a copy. I believe she just rang them and said her DS wanted to sit the entrance exam (which they were considering at the time).

Wow. I'd heard that they never give them out!

She must be very persuasve

Thank you very much for all your input

As people do, I've gone and ignored all the advice here, burned my bridges and turned down offers from two pre-preps so the state primary it will be. I just loved the vibe of it, the other schools left me cold.

In answer to some questions here, of course the local school doesn't turn shit at seven. But there are two really fantastic prep schools near here that start at seven and at this stage I think I'd like my dd to be part of them.

Obviously though I'll take a view nearer the time, not least because I agree it's insane to be tutoring a six-year-old (though the alternative is tutoring a 10-year-old as the secondary school round here is famously rough. It's also crazy that schools round here seem to be actively searching for children who've been crammed to "perform" rather than seeking out potential. I suspect the pressure is not so great for girls as it is for boys, though, the schools I'm thinking of are sought after but their names don't seem to have the same effect on people as Colet Court or KCS where everyone goes doolally.

What a mad world we live in where you have to consider these things when your dc is three.

its up to you if you want your children to go to a school like that. Personally if cramming children for a day exams isnt up your street then why send them?

sorry i missed your last post

I would do the same and have done. You go with the school you feel the most confortable with, the one you have the most trust in, the one you know your ds/dd will be happy at. It makes no difference if its state or private

Glad you have made a decision.

You might find that the prep schools have a place between 7 and 11yrs. They would likely fill it without an exam in order to get your fees!

A friend did that and avoided 7+. Her boys joined the school mid-year in years 2 and 1.

Has anyone any experience of the exam for Withington Girls School? Its mid January and I don't know if I should be doing some work with my DD for it. Any idea of the standard expected - she is very bright and I am tempted to let her do it alone but I don't want her to not get a place if the others have been tutored. Aargh any help??