Lack of imagination in DS, 9. 'Struggling' with Literacy as a result. HOW important IS imagination?

[gaussgirl]

Ds, yr 5 is doing well in maths and science, in group 2 of 5 in each. His teacher is happy with him BUT he's in group 4 out of 5 for Literacy. The main reasons are:

Short, though improving attention span, and basically, an inability to think around a subject in order to put SOMETHING down on paper!

The teacher said DS1 is hard to assess as he just doesn't get enough work down, but the issue seems to be DS doesn't actually HAVE any ideas to commit to paper! Not that he's having trouble mentally organising a mass of thoughts into coherent sentences which would be a different issue altogether!

DS, not completely unreasonably, does ask why one NEEDS a 'good' imagination!

Does he?

To be honest DH has the imagination of tarmac and is a man who never lies in bed awake at night worrying about the 'what if's' of life becasue they just don't occur to him- not necessarily a bad way to go through life, really, so it's no surprise that DS follows suit BUT Modern Education does seem to value having a vivid imagination. I see DS as eventually going into IT or engineering, neither career path exactly studded with the world's great story tellers BUT is DS going to get into the higher ed. needed to qualify WITHOUT a decent literacy/English score?

His reading level is average to a bit above but it has been the devil's own job to encourage reading- he practically never picks up a book of his own volition, but he does like spy books.

I've been setting him daily writing tasks (which he hates) in an effort to improve the amount and quality of what he writes but I feel a bit out of my depth- AM I focusing on the right things? Is it specific tasks he's not good at (eg 'write 3 sentences using appropriate speech marks') or should it be 'just write about subject 'x''? What I do is tell him to think about the subject I'm about to name, does he like it? Or not? Why? Is it hard? Easy? OK? Then I give him a timed minute without pen or paper to THINK about what he'll write, I then say 'Karate' or "Pokemon"- then off he goes. I don't time this bit in that there is no time limit because it'd be hard to monitor 'improvement' as each sentence is different and I don't want the dashing ANYTHING off just to get through it in time.

The results have been very patchy. I'll leave him to it and 5 minutes later he'll say he's finished and there will be 12 words. I'm SURE that if I asked him to write a bullet pointed list, he'd be FAR better! I think he knows how to write English- I mean, I feel that he would pass an old style English Language O level in that his analytical mind can get itself around 'this is a verb/ adverb/ clause' but he doesn't seem able to take a topic and DO anything with it!

And yes, I use bribery!

AM I wasting my time?

HOW important is the ability to use one's imagination to come up with interesting ideas or a different slant on a topic?

DO I accept that this skill ISN'T paramount to a possible future engineer BUT will DS be able to pursue such a career without it?

If you are not sure where his weaknesses are,talk to his teacher. Most schools nowadays offer writing tasks that are very varied - my ds for example, could write a story or a technical glossary about the same subject. But learning how to structure a story etc is important in literacy. It can be a true story though, related to his interests.
Ideas don't have to be 'imaginative', he could think of it in terms of explaining what has happened (can use a real event) or explaining how something works, or giving his opinion.

Yes, the teacher said to me that DS just doesn't get enough down in the time given BUT he feels DS just isn't formulating ANY thoughts on the subject!

S might be able to write a technical glossary, and can order his writing such as in writing down a science experiment so he can 'structure' in that way but I do get the impression that DS's inability to add anything NEW to a topic is seen as a 'bad' thing.

Anyway, as usual, today's 3 sentence writing task has ended in sobbing tears. Write me 3 sentences about karate (having just come home from his lesson!). Couldn't think of anything to put down at all. DH applied some pressure (not nastily- DS IS nine!), result, tears and slammed doors. Sigh. This isn't working!

Is that his homework or something you have set him? I think unless it is homework you should leave it - I think it is a mistake for parents to be teachers as IMO kids can see it as being punished.. If it IS homework, then why not suggest he researches some stuff on the net about Karate. As him to think of things he could find out - eg who invented it, what the word Karate means (if anything!), who is the world champion etc. Would he like to do a verbal presentation instead of writing it, with a big fuss as you sit and he stands and you all pay attention? Then he could make notes, and could see how those notes could be written as sentences.

If he associates writing with failure it will be hard to make him want to do it. That's why I suggested a verbal presentation.
Nothing wrong with a correctly punctuated bullet-pointed list either.
Has he a good sense of humour? Would he like trying to be funny and nonsensical? ie Karate is a good thing to do while wearing a tutu and ballet shoes
Karate is the Korean word for potato/bottom
Most of the people who enjoy Karate are over 90 years old.

With DS1, all homework used to be a complete nightmare- we'd practically draw straws to see who would steel themselves for the unpleasantness and tantrums, and ever present tears. Luckily, maturity IS winning through and DS will do his maths, reading and project work without TOO much fuss. However, the writing stuff down is still a big issue- big enough for it to hamper his progress.

Whilst not 'homework' as such, DS's teacher thinks DS needs to see writing as a thing he'll HAVE to do. We feel we're being given the run-around by DS- we know he's capable of way more than he's doing (as I believe does he!) so I suppose we ARE getting heavier with him- hell, it worked with everything else he's had to do! And he's in Y5 now and needs to start taking a bit more responsibility for his work. The sobbing lasted just long enough for DH to abandon the proposed Macca's visit and me to just walk away as an alternative to shouting (which would NOT have been helpful). He wants us to believe that writing is SUCH torture we're horrible people for 'making' him do it- til we stop, then it's all fine again! Til the next time. We're trying to help him with this but god, it's frustrating!

We're trying to find ways into the dark recesses of DS's mind so he can tease what's in there out- and onto the page! Yes, there IS the 'do nothing' option, sorely tempting though it is BUT the school's requirements are there and DS1 isn't meeting them!

What we're looking for is the breakthrough where a) DS recognises that, just like with maths, we can and will assist til the light dawns and b) where DS realises that there is no getting away from this, that it's actually far easier to train his mind to do what is asked (by asking himself some questions when the topic is set: "Mm, what am I being asked to do here? What things did the teacher say he was looking for? Can I think of any of the hundreds of interesting connectives I can use to make my work better? DO I like the story that's just been read? Why do I like it?"- And "If I can get this down in 3-5 well written sentences, all of which I am capable of, I will get the necessary tick and everyone will get off my back!").

DS is in a small class of 24- but 6 years of state ed. have taught me that we have to be proactive to a certain extent to help our DSs as far as we can... but we seem to have hit a brick wall!

Tricky. A standard thing would be to give him an opening to a story and ask him to continue it. This removes the daunting 'blank page' factor but still leaves a lot or room for imagination and expression. You could take a couple of paragraphs from a book or write something yourself that uses your DS as the main character.

Another option to get his brain firing might be to get him to do some creative thinking rather than writing. Instead of saying 'write five sentences about a fireworks display', you could say:

"Let's think about fireworks. If you went to watch a fireworks display, what would you see? What would you smell? what would you hear, what would you feel?

Imagine you were telling someone who'd never seen fireworks what it was like."

You could also get him to draw something and then describe that in writing, like his dream bedroom or his favourite meal.

Unfortunately, having a reasonable imagination is important in not only Literacy but subjects like history as well.

In Literacy children are expected to write in lots of different genres, especially the fiction ones; fairy tales, myths and legends, science fiction stories etc etc etc.

In history, they will be expected to empathise with characters from an historical event or period; write a letter from an evacuated child, you are one of King Harold's soldiers and you have just watched your king being killed and the French taking over... how do you feel? etc etc

Imagination is a hard nut to crack, especially in boys, but it can be helped by encouraging to read a wide variety of stories by quality authors. I would not push him to do any writing if he hates it; it will achieve nothing. If getting him to read is an issue, get the books as spoken word cds or even download them onto MP3 format
Try playing quickfire games with him in the car; you say "tree" he says a word associated with it; we have had tree-leaf-green-sprouts-smell-toilet-bath-bubbles etc etc etc.
OR, tell a story where you each say one word at a time; it encourages quick thinking and being able to adapt ideas.

The other thing you could do is read a section of a book to him and stop at a cliffhanger. Then discuss it with him. If for example it was about a boy being picked on by another child you could ask your DS what he thinks the boy might do and what your DS would do if it happened to him. You can throw in as many prompts as you need to e.g. do you think he will tell the teacher? If he told the teacher what might he/she do about it?

I think it's great that you're encouraging him. A blank page can be pretty intimidating to anyone. Even giving him a picture cut out of a magazine and asking him to write a sentence about that might help.

How about creating a mind map about karate?

Write Karate in the middle of the page and draw about 10 lines coming out of it. Then write a word associated with Karate at the end of each line.

If he is on a roll, extend it further by writing more words that are linked to his new words IYSWIM

That way he is not writing the dreaded sentences, but he is getting his thoughts and ideas on the paper. Perhaps you could scribe for him initially. And yes, he can use any type and colour of pen he wants

I think that before he can write your ds will need lots of experience of similar text types. He needs to read. So if you want him to write about Karate he needs to read a book about Karate or look it up on the internet. Get a feel for the style and types of words needed.

Talk about how the page is laid out. What style is it written in. Keep a little book with key words in for certain subjects.

My class all have writing ideas books where they write down words and phrases they come across when they are reading. They then 'borrow' them to include in their stories/poems etc.... No need to rethink the wheel everytime is there?!

By the way, nothing wrong with using bullet points if writing certain non-fiction texts.

Please don't turn this into a battle - it will put your DS off.
I take part in a literacy prog for adults and so many of them say their probs began at your Dss age when it didn't come naturally and they were turned off by force feeding tactics.
I tend to find that most of my students are terrified of putting pen to paper and cannot believe it when I tell them I'm not even going to suggest it. They are so relieved.
What I always start with is not creative writing but creative thinking. I 'll read a passage - can be anything, a book, a mag, a newspaper - then we'll talk about it, nothing high powered, just a low key chat, and I'll make notes.
Then I read our ideas back to them.
At first they can't believe they were the ones who came up with them but in time it becomes second nature and they take their ideas further and further. It is a natural progression to want to record these in due course.
I don't see why this wouldn't work with reluctant kids in much the same way.

Thanks to everyone! Some excellent ideas that I am definitely going to put into practice. I agree the blank page can be daunting so I need to look at my approach to that.

And yes to those who have tactfully reminded me that drawing up Battle Lines for Literacy is not at all helpful!

I need for DS to see that he CAN develop his imagination as it IS important in so many areas. It struck me how much 'work' we perhaps need to do- rather alarmingly!- when I said 'OK, DS1' (yes, I know, stupid name!!)'tell me about Pokemon cards'....'Umm'....'Well, I dunno, do I?'....silence... (having enthusiastically collected about 2000) and a bit of a shrug. So when he'd gone I did an experiment- I called DS2 who's 7 and in no way anything other than average academically. I asked him the same question- and I practically had to throw wet cement on him to make him shut up! LOADS of ideas and stuff he REALLY wanted me to know.

You say he could produce bullet points , so have him do that, do it verbally at first. Then ask him questions about the points so he can expand on them verbally.

Go gently and work up to writing down the point, and expanding/explaining them verbally. Eventually work up to doing the whole thing in writing, but there's nothing wrong with talking things over as you write them down. Will take time.

What would DS like to do in the future ? Most things involve imagination - for instance the programmers who I work with have to imagine the way that the software will be used and work and write the code such that it covers all those eventualities. The engineers have to think about the use of the things they design and describe how it must be used and ensure that they don't leave things out in the manual. Its really important that they don't just say it does x,y,z but that maybe it could do a,b,c too.

It's fair to assume that some people are more imaginative than others. Some are very low on imagination - so what you need to teach him is a skill really isn't it? How to answer a question.

I agree with other posters though, that forcing this is not going to get you anywhere, it'll only entrench him further.

I think Litchick's ideas are great - as is the mind mapping thing.

I think if my ds was like this - I'd go for facts first, if he feels comfortable with them. Do a mind map on something he knows in science - gasses or whatever. Then encourage him to think creatively - 'okay what happens to some gasses if we light them?' 'they blow up' 'cool - let's do a line here of things that might blow up'.

That might crack the nut as it were.

Also there's a huge difference between being able to produce an answer to a question - or having the confidence to answer it and actually knowing it.

Perhaps he froze with the Pokemon question? Perhaps he thought whatever he said would be wrong and he isn't sure what you want to know.

You could do some brain storming on a computer?

Also if you do it verbally

make sure you tell him THERE IS NO WRONG ANSWER HERE

and you write down when he says

'erm, you can get water Pokemon?'

Confidence is key.

If you Google Writing frames there are loads of ideas see here. They help kids plan their ideas.
If he is really struggling to think of ideas
try & prompt him ie if he is writing a spooky story - get him to visualise the scene & describe it out load to you. You jot down notes of what hes saying. Ask him what he can see, hear, feel, touch, taste etc - then help him sort these notes into a plan & then into story

Don't put any kind of pressure on him. Keep it nice & relaxed & fun

Also using a picture is a good start. Get him to describe what he can see in the picture e.g.like this (ie no imagination needed) - then imagine what it would be like if he was walking through the scene

mix comments, open questions and closed questions to get the most out of him verbally. he might find it less daunting to hear instead of "tell me about pokemon", "x is my favourite pokemon, which is yours" or if I was a pokemon I'ld like to do x.

only skim read op very hastily.

The problem is NOT lack of imagination! That is never a reason for a child not writing.

"he practically never picks up a book of his own volition, but he does like spy books."

you'r contradicting yourself. Let him choose loads of spy books

could he write a fact book on different spies?

You know, writing is always hard work. Very had work. A writing task a day would drive me insane and I don't mind writing.

When you encourage him to write something, do you write your own piece of writing at the same time?