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Original poster

Do you think this is fair

33 replies

Reallytired · 16/10/2008 18:26

My son lost his golden time because he did no work. He was supposed to write about Hindus and did nothing but write the date.

Another little boy in his class called the teacher an "Fing cnt" and threw a book at the teacher. The boy who swore at the teacher recieved exactly the same level of punishment. (ie. he lost his golden time)

Where as I think my son deserved to lose his golden time, it seems unreasonable that swearing at teacher is considered to be equally as bad as doing no work. I can also understand why my son feels very resentful.

OP posts:

littlelapin · 16/10/2008 18:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheFallenMadonna · 16/10/2008 18:29

In school, doing no work at all in a lesson is pretty bad. I rather suspect that there will be other repurcussions for the verbally abusive child that your ds is unaware of right now.

cocoleBOO · 16/10/2008 18:32

The High School near me are on strike at the moment. A pupil assulted a teacher and some are refusing to teach him because he wasn't excluded. My friend's DD had her nose pierced and was excluded for 2 days (which my friend agreed with, she had broken he uniform rules) but it doesn't seem fair.

cocoleBOO · 16/10/2008 18:33

That never answered your op did it?

soultaken · 16/10/2008 18:45

I agree absolutely with TheFallenMadonna.

Sheesh, is that a common thing to happen in your school

sunnygirl1412 · 16/10/2008 18:46

Golden time is time at the end of the school day where children can do fun activities such as going on the pc, playing board games, drawing etc.

I can understand why your ds feels resentful - perhaps you could have a word with the teacher and explain this. They might not tell you exactly what else is happening to the other child, but could perhaps tell you that other measures are being taken, and this might help your son feel less hard-done-by.

I used to feel resentful on behalf of the good children in my children's classes, because it seemed to me that there were schemes set up to reward good behaviour from the badly behaved children, but little or no recognition for those who routinely behaved well. Certificates were given out, but every child got one during the year - even if the teacher had to think up a really spurious reason for awarding it - a friend who was a TA at the school told me this.

Obviously children who are badly behaved can improve if given rewards and encouragement - nothing wrong in that, but I also firmly believe that the children who are behaving well, working hard and achieving their best need encouraging too!!

If they feel that they are never getting recognition for their work whilst they see other kids getting lots of attention/praise for doing what they do as a matter of course, they are going to feel resentful.

I'm not sure what the answer is (or even if I made my point at all clearly or understandably - my brain is failing, I'm afraid), but it seems logical that whilst there are some rewards when bad behaviour turns good, there ought to be further rewards to give all the kids something to work towards.

Spectregadget · 16/10/2008 18:47

Are you sure the other boy had no other punishment on top, ie loss of playtime, mum pulled in, etc?

peanutbutterkid · 16/10/2008 18:48

I agree with R-tired, I don't think it sounds fair. BUT, I suspect Rt's DS will respond to the punishment quite well, whereas there must be much deeper/much more complicated issues to sort out with the swearing angry boy.

DS complains that some of the worst behaved kids in his class get extra computer time just for being well-behaved, whereas he behaves well all the time, and doesn't get any extra computer time. I don't know how to explain to him what a nightmare it is for the teacher trying to find an effective incentive scheme for the misbehaving lot. But DS is right -- it's not at all a fair situation.

unfitmother · 16/10/2008 18:48

Does the other boy have SEN?

Blandmum · 16/10/2008 18:50

Other boy may have SEN, or may come from a family where such language is the norm.

Ds lost his golden time last week for loosing his temper with another child. He learned from the experience

smartiejake · 16/10/2008 19:15

It always used to stick in my throat when the naughtiest boy in my DDs class had the most stickers on the sticker chart. He was rewarded for being good and those who were good all the time got nothing! GRRR

We have a yellow card system for golden time in our school. If a child is badly behaved and receives a yellow card, they lose their golden time (which is on a Friday) but they can earn it back by getting four signitures on their card for good work and good behaviour. Obviously if they get the yellow card on a Friday then they are unlikely to earn it back in time.

I am really quite that a child swore at a teacher in the way you described, but a child who had done no work at all should be punished.

Lauriefairycake · 16/10/2008 19:19

I think we get too caught up in the word 'fair', life isn't fair and it isn't black and white either - both concepts that children struggle with as they need the world to be fair to feel safe.

A good lesson to teach him. Take the focus off the other kid as he can only influence his own behaviour.

Smithagain · 16/10/2008 20:30

To be honest, not having golden time seems a reasonable consequence of failing to do any work whatsoever during lesson time. So I think I would focus on that and leave the teacher to use her own judgement about what is appropriate for the other boy, who clearly has his own problems.

CrushWithEyeliner · 16/10/2008 20:35

I would leave this to the teacher. I would explain to my child that it is not his concern how others are being punished just to change his own behavior and also that there is no excuse for no work whatsoever in the lesson - the other little boy sounds like he has awful problems tbh.

clam · 16/10/2008 20:57

I struggle with the "earning it back" thing. Yes, rehabilitation is good and all that, but I just remember DS once, when he was being vile about something and I docked some pocket money, saying, "but can I earn it back later if I'm good?" Seemed to me he was attempting to play the system by thinking that it didn't matter if he was horrid, because a few minutes of being nice later on would annul the punishment. Someone come along and convince me otherwise, please. Am open to persuasion......

amicissima · 16/10/2008 21:29

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

sunnydelight · 17/10/2008 07:54

There is a limit to the sanctions available to a teacher in primary school, so I don't think that comparing "crimes" with "punishments" is particularly useful.

What the other kid did is really none of your business (though I would be equally ) you need to focus on your child and whether or not you're happy with the consequence he received for doing no work.

magentadreamer · 17/10/2008 08:09

I don't think you should be comparing punishments but looking at why your DS failed to do any work. As for the other child I'm sure there has been further non publised repercussions of his behaviour.

blueskyandsunshine · 17/10/2008 08:13

Reallytired is your son quite young? I think I remember from another thread that he is.

It's not fair, you'd think the other kid would have to go to the teacher or have to tidy up all the pens or something.

All in favour of children who don't work being shown the error of their ways -- as mine is most definitely of that ilk. But this sort of faffery could make them think they might as well be hung for a sheep than a lamb.

clam · 17/10/2008 09:23

Of course I don't know the background of the kid involved, but in many schools, swearing at a teacher results in instant exclusion. Now, that should apply to all kids regardless, but I do recall an instance in our school where the Head would not exclude a child because there was a child-protection issue. His mother would have half killed him for one, and then refused to have him in the house and kicked him out to wander the streets all day. As he was only 8, that was a big issue. So, to the other parents it looked as if he'd got away with this particular crime, but there were plenty of other sanctions going on behind the scenes.

AbbeyA · 17/10/2008 09:30

It sounds perfectly fair that your DS would miss Golden Time, after all he needs that time to do the work that he missed.

I would expect the other DC to miss it, but in addition I would expect his parent to have been called up to the school and for him to be excluded for at least the rest of the day. Are you sure that the DC who swore at the teacher didn't get an additional punishment?

bagsforlife · 17/10/2008 09:37

That is so sad Clam. OP needs to be glad her child has a nice, safe home to be in. That is probably what is going on here. Most children do NOT swear at that age, let alone to a teacher.

I think the OP should try and encourage her DS not to be resentful and try and forget about the whole thing. Its just one day in many, more days to go in school where, unfortunately, life isn't fair.

Do something nice with him to take his mind off it.

cory · 17/10/2008 10:24

If my dc's came home to me with this story, I would tell them to concentrate on their own work and leave the teacher to do her job. Sounds harsh, but I have known children becoming so obsessed with how the teacher does her work that they forget to pay attention to what they are supposed to learn. (I did work experience in a junior school and some of the girls in particular were so busy keeping an eye on the naughty boys that they got very little work done)

Dd had a child in her class who did very odd things indeed and it went on for a suspiciously long time before he got expelled. A few years later I found out the background- and it was horrendous. This little boy had seen such horrors that I really do not understand how anyone could go through that and still live. I don't suppose he will ever be normal. But from the point of view of society (let alone his own poor little self) it was obviously better the longer you could keep him in some sort of sane normal environment.

There are also the possibilities of SN. Tourette's for instance, or some sort of ASD. The teacher is bound to know things that you do not.

bigTillyMint · 17/10/2008 11:26

I think you should take the line of (even if you are fuming....) "I am not interested in what the other boy did, just you. As you did not do any work, you missed golden time. Next time do your work."

It may seem unfair to him and you, but clearly the teacher feels your DS is capable of doing his work and wants him to realise this and take responsibility for his own actions. I am sure other things will be happenning for the other boy.

FWIW, my son would feel the same as yours, and we have to remind him of the above regularly!

Original poster

Reallytired · 17/10/2008 17:32

The problem is that my son is being throughly childish and acting like a six year old. In some ways losing golden time is not much of a punishment. He gets two hours a day of golden time at after school club everyday.

I am aware of SEN as I work in a special school. I think it must be a real minefield in mainstream to be consistant with children and for teachers to know when a child acts up whether its their SEN or just plain bad behaviour.

My biggest concern is a complete and utter lack of rapport. We had parents evening yeseterday and I got the feeling that my son is doing no work in an attempt to spite his teacher. He is too immature to know that he is only hurting himself. His teacher annoyed me because she feels that this is happening because I work fulltime. (Nothing ofcourse to do with my husband working)

OP posts:

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