Entry into Kings College or Colet Court, St Pauls

[rukmal]

Can anyone help me. My son is 4 and in a pre-prep. We want him to enter Kings College, Wimbledon or Colet Court, St Pauls at age 7 and does anyone have any tips on how to do the entrance tests. He will do them at age 6 plus. Can anyone help with recommending a good tutor. We live in Surrey. Has anyone used Prime Tutors -grateful for views.

No, MrsGofG, can't be the same one, as the one I know has October, December and then October again. I fear it's more common than you'd think round here - my SIL, SW London too, also planned for winter babies and has a November and January one.

I do think this bit of the world's gone mad when people actually, seriously plan their conceptions to improve the resultant offsprings' chances of getting into one or two extremely selective schools.

Hey ho. Off to bray DS1 some more over unfinished tutoring homework. [Hypocritical emoticon].

I did hear that Nicola Horlick (famous for 'having it all' - including the divorce) had all December babies so as to take her mat leave over Xmas - apparently she knows to the minute when she has ovulated - useful skill .
Apologies OP - this is not what you asked for! However, to get back to the thread I spoke to another friend this afternoon who has a DS who went into KCS at 7+, from Kings House (prep in Richmond) - they did not tutor him. He was not an obviously academic boy (but I can vouch for him being a very nice and personable boy, and got on well in the group session). I wonder tho' how things will turn out @ 11,12. They say that all boys WILL get thru' common entrance, but it is VERY high pressure when they get to that age, and there is intense competition among boys to get scholarships to the senior school. (Scholarships being honorary btw, minimal cash attached!)

(Singersgirlv- how old is your DS? - sounds like we may be neighbours so interested to compare notes!!)

The forward planning works fine as long as you stay in England & Wales - the minute you go elsewhere the cut off dates change and your best laid plans to have a child with an age advantage can go to pot.

re the age thing - isn't it weighted?

in our area it is weighted and the three of mine already in the grammar school are august /october/october

i was far happier with the august who 'won' a couple of points due to being a baby - than the october ones who were penalised a couple for being older

the august baby also learned to 'work' from a young age

autumn borns much more lazy due to walking into educaion at the 'top of their field'

my next two were born jan/feb which is perfect and the most recent one july again

sorry to digress

abbeya i do beg to differ

my august born is late august and has always worked hard in order to keep up. being naturally an able child - the two things combined benefited him academically
he scored highly (as high as he could ) at gcse and is now looking at top universities home and abroad..

i actually think his birth date benefitted him and iknow this goes against current thinking

MrsGofG, DS1 is 10 in Y6, DS2 7 in Y3 - both August birthdays.

NotanOtter, it is age weighted by month for the one local grammar school round here. However, the prep school tests are not as far as I can see strictly age weighted, though I'm sure they do make allowances. They're private schools, so they set their own criteria and thus pick the candidates who they have most confidence in, as Amey said earlier.

Apologies to the OP for the digression. I only know 1 child who got into one of the 2 schools mentioned at 7 or 8 without being tutored - but my sample is only about 10 boys, so not really that useful.

It all depends on the child. I have a friend with a dd born the first week of September, very mature and able, she would have been much better born the week before and the youngest of the year. On hindsight I really wish I had made an effort to keep my August born DS down a year when he was five-however I don't know whether it would have been allowed and he did OK in the end.

I have a 6 year old at one of the KCS owned pre preps and I think we have to be very clear here re what we mean by 'tutoring'. Do we mean mums doing a bit extra, or private tutors doing a bit of exam prep with them or full blown kumon maths and English from aged 3. All of the above are going on at our school with more than half the boys, head turns a blind eye and not interested in getting involved in the wider problem and boys being judged too early when they arrive in my opinion on whether they are CC/KCS material and personality. Very disolusioned by the whole thing. We have a very bright, sporty, outgoing Sept born boy, but think this method of getting them in at 7+ is too much too soon. Good luck!

How do you assess for potential particularly if you use traditional maths and english comprehension exams? What does Colet Court use if it is not a standard set of exams however dressed up.

What do you think about the kings college pre-prep assessing boys too early. Are August born boys disadvantaged? Has anyone heard of prime tutors?

I don't know much about this having been state educated but can't you wait until they are 15/16 to be assessed. E.g. GCSE.

I would imagine that assessing a child's potential at 6 is a bit hit and miss.

I also think the idea of forcing children down an academic route so young seems a bit mean...nicer to allow them to follow their own interests. Children are designed to learn and what they are taught seems slightly irrelevant.

I hadn't realised how good I was at maths until I was 12 and then there is so much still to learn, that being good at maths at 12 doesn't mean a lot.

Still managed to get a good degree from Cambridge though! (But not in maths, it was in engineering)

Some children are ready to be assessed in a formal way at 6/7. Others are years away from it. KCS and CC take in older suitable bright children too - children (boys especially, I believe) shouldn't have to be pushed into applying at the earliest possible opportunity. I know boys who have joined Kings between the ages of 8 and 11 and have settled in very happily and very easily, but would not have been ready at 7.

Agree with a lot of the above. I have three children who have all gone to St Pauls. Their pre-prep did 7+ preparation and had a record of getting a few people in to these schools each year. But I found I had to supplement what the school did. There is no point doing this if kids aren't bright/academic. But if you think they might be, and without stressing the child, you owe it to them to try. I did not use a private tutor but did it myself. A lot of parents do. 2 main themes. First, extra work to acclimatise them to test (Bond papers in maths english and reasoning are good for this). Second, helping them learn stuff a bit faster than the school is teaching them (reading, times tables, telling the time, writing sentences, eventually a very short story, simple maths and english grammar concepts etc etc). The main hurdle with the 7+ tests at these schools is that they test things which the average boy of this age is only just beginning to grasp because they are only just beginning to be taught it - eg telling the time. I started this on a low-key basis approx 2 years in advance - last-minute cramming is probably too stressful and unhelpful. For example, in reading, each school holiday I bought books in the series the school was using and kept them going at the same pace as in term time. All three have thrived at St Pauls.

Agree with above.

At 7+, eg exams taken when a boy is 6, our son was nowhere near ready as he was still awkward holding a pencil and had not been quick to learn to read. Other boys were up to the sort of levels required, but even then the competition was so intense that I suspect some top up tutoring went on to ensure they were on top of their game.

It therefore suited us to wait till 13+ and see what sort of boy he was and what school would be a good fit. Some of the boys we know who were academically precocious at 6 are now quite ordinary, others remain very bright. In the end my son was offered a 13+ place at St Pauls, though we turned it down as he did not want to go, and we did not think it the right school for him. At his equally academic school, some from the prep appear to be having a tough time, and may have been better off not having their educational path determined before the age of 7.

7+ also seems quite early to start commuting in from Surrey. If he is already at a good school 10 or 11+ might be better.

One of my DS's friends moved to Colet Court at 7+. The school advised against his trying, as they thought he wasn't academically strong enough. The mother, who had put him down ages before in case, though they might as well give it a go anyhow as he was on the list. I don't know if he was tutored (but I think not), and the school doesn't do 7+ preparation. He got in anyhow.

If you think these are the right schools, give it a try. But have a plan B as well.

I am going through the 7+ process right now. DS1 is at a nonselective pre-prep which is academically pushy and does have a very good track record for entry into the selective London Preps.

They have several mock exams which all boys take. Those whose parents have indicated an interested in sitting the boys for 7+ entry take theirs in a more formal setting whilst those boys not sitting the exam do theirs in a relaxed manner. It is from these results, as well as teacher input, that the school advises whether or not it believes that a child would be ready to take the exam - it is not just a matter of academic readiness, but also of maturity. For those boys who are doing 7+, there is an afterschool club which prepares the boys for the exams several times a week, this way the education of all isn't at the mercy of the 40 some percent choosing to take the exam.

However, despite all the very good prep the school does, the vast majority of boys who are sitting the exam are also doing extra coaching. Some are doing Kumon maths plus tutoring twice a week! The fear is that by not tutoring, you are not giving your son every chance to get in, particularly if everyone else is tutoring. It is madness, but driven by anxiety - particularly when one hears about the 10 to 1 ratio of applicant to places at some of the schools. Crazy.

Needmoresleep comment about where the boys are long-term is spot on. The majority of boys don't move at 7+ and this is no indication of how successfully they are academically in the future. 7+ is an exam which is suited for a particular boy, but isn't the end of the academic road. DS1 seems ready, and the school tells me he is ready. However, I probably am shooting myself in the foot by not tutoring, but if doesn't pass he can try again at a future date.

I think you are doing the right thing!

It sounds as if he is getting as much preparation as he needs. If he gets in he will have done it because he is good enough, and therefore able to enjoy the educational opportunities he has been given.

To squeeze in with tutors might mean tutors to keep up, which to me sounds like a miserable childhood. (We know some Colet Court boys who continue to be heavily tutored all the way through. Failure is not an option.)

We know several children who have failed at 7+ or 10+ but then sailed in at 13+, as well as those who like my son did not try. Some of my son's contemporaries at his senior school seem quite anxious, whereas he has had the benefit of building self esteem and enjoying education, which is really standing him in good stead.

It is the case of finding the right school for the child, rather than squeezing a child into the right school. At 6 there is a bit of a way to go.

If your DS is at private pre-prep, it really is unnecessary and possibly quite damaging to put him through extra private tutoring on top. These schools are geared up to preparing for the 7+ assessments.

If you think your DS will not get into your chosen school without this you have chosen the wrong school and should rethink.

Not sure about state, but possibly some tutoring to brush up in areas that state may not have covered may help. But long term heavy duty tutoring at this age is madness and probably damaging for the child.

DS was offered places at both these schools at 8 from a state school. He was not tutored. He is in equiv of Yr 11 now and has flown through. IMO take advice from HT, play to the boy's strengths. If you think a tutor is required IMO it's probably the wrong school for the boy.

We know parents who have determinedly tutored and the boys have been miserable or have left at about 11 having been advised not to wait until common entrance.

Do you work for them Anika?

Hi
My son is due to attend the 8+ activity morning next week. Please can you let me know what he might be expected to do? I know they say no preparation is needed but it would be useful if you can share some of your sons' past experiences. thanks